Title: Car Accident Settlement SECRETS: How Insurance Companies Lie To Steal Your Case Value
Downloaded: 2025-12-30 09:38:51

[Music] Welcome back to another episode of the AutoAcctorneys podcast. I'm your host attorney Ali. This podcast is brought to you by the AutoAcctorneys Group where our motto is simple. We take care of you. While this podcast has auto accident related issues, I try to cover so much more than that. Last week, we actually talked about mattresses and how to to pick up an appropriate mattress after you've suffered an injury in an auto accident. Today, I have the real pleasure of having two amazing attorneys with me on the podcast today.

These two guys are from Avery KS. And if you can guess, I have Ben Avery and Trey KS with me today. Guys, gentlemen, thank you so much for joining me. Welcome. I hope the drive wasn't too far. >> Absolutely. Happy to be here. Yeah, happy to be here, man. This is awesome. Super cool little outfit. Yeah. >> Oh, thank I I appreciate you. This is the first time you've been here. >> First time I've been the been in the building. I It's awesome. Looks like a like a Oh my work. Yeah. Nice. >> Got the Got the green wall.

>> Yeah. Well, before we jump into the topic uh which today I I would love having professionals with me today to talk about client expectations, case value, some of the issues that uh maybe consumers uh that are going to retain counsel might want to consider and uh know what it is that they're getting into. But before we jump into that, I would love if each of you would just give me a brief intro about yourself and uh how you wound up here today. >> Um well, prison. >> Yeah. >> It all starts with jail.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Actually, I do have a story with attorney where I met him in jail before a deposition. But >> I got the story how we how we met. Yeah. I guess that matters. Um and it's a plug for uh Ben's dad, Craig. you know, great guy, seasoned lawyer. Um, I think he's probably tried more cases than any single lawyer in in in Georgia. >> Um, I'm fresh out of law school. Um, you know, working right down the road actually, uh, with a PI firm. Had a case come up and and dude, I boogered it up. Like I mean, I'm three days out of law school and like I screwed something up and to this day I don't remember what it is, but um, not surprisingly messed something up and Craig was was council ops.

He was on the defense side and you know, I picked up the phone kind of hat in hand. I'm like, man, I I I messed this up. And you know, I got the long talking, too. Craig is a little long-winded sometimes if he if he if he wants to be. I mean, talks for a living. So, um, and basically says, you know, Trey, we all screw up. It's happened. You know, just recognize that I'm I'm going to let you, you know, kind of get away with this one or give you a get out of jail free card, but remember this. Remember that, you know, that this was this was a gift and and you should, you know, have the same uh grace with with somebody that that you come across cuz it will happen again.

And luckily um you know Ben is my grace so I he was the one he's my he's my mega wish. So I he's he's he's my gift that I brought back on. Now Ben was working for him. Yeah. I was working for him at the time and and Ben and I kind of started talking a lot through the through the case and he was going through law school and and uh >> so I met Ben three days out of law school. One of my first cases and and he wasn't even a lawyer yet. So >> I'm older but younger. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yes. Yes. >> Yeah. I took the delayed route to being a lawyer.

Well, it it's aged well on you. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, with my dad being a lawyer, I the last thing I wanted to do was be a lawyer, right? I tried everything I could to avoid being an attorney, and then eventually I was like, I got to get a real job. And so, I decided I was going to go to law school, started off working with my dad, doing insurance defense, and then after about three years, switched over to the pliff side. And then, I guess I've been doing that since 2016. Um, but I will say starting on the defense side has given me an incredible perspective for evaluating cases, helping clients understand what's really going to happen.

>> Mhm. >> You know, they like we're going to talk about later, their expectations can go a certain way, and if you don't if you don't have the correct experience, you might not be able to manage them correctly. But I'll be forever grateful that that's where I started. And of course, being my dad, he just threw me straight into the fire, right? You know, I think day one, he just handed me a file. I was like, "Hey, you've got a deposition today." Like, what? >> I'm a huge believer in trial by fire. I think that's really the only way to learn.

You can only prepare so much. And if you if you wait, it's also the you've got a new baby on the way. Uh it's not going to be your first, but I'm sure you probably have gone through this. You're like, "Well, I want to wait until I don't think I'm ready for it." You could take that aspect in any part of life. You'll never be ready for it. You have to do the thing before you're ready. >> Yeah. You're never ready for anything, right? You can prepare as much as you want, but until it actually happens, you're really not ready for it.

You may hope that you are. >> Yeah. >> But yeah, until until it starts to happen, you I mean, it could things could change immediately, you know? >> Well, it doesn't matter how prepared you are, you're going to screw up. Like, we're all going to screw up, right? And and you you kind of just hope that the people that kind of are holding your feet to the fire realize that they've been there, too. And like we all got to learn at a point, but I think you're totally right. I mean, the way you got to I you learn more by getting into, you know, we we've all been to law school and and you go through law school and and you get out and you know nothing, right?

We spent three years of hell and you get out and you know nothing, right? And they give you the bar books and it's like, "All right, go pass this test." And >> well, you know, when the uh interest vests after a life >> Sure. And rule against perpetuities, >> not in war. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That was a law school joke. Sorry, Boo. Oh, yeah. It's just consumer facing. Consumer facing. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You guys are doing amazing plaintiffs work. Uh, when did you two come together? >> January 1st is our official start day of this year.

But all throughout last year, we'd kind of see each other >> at different events and be like, "Hey, man." >> We just flirt a little. >> Yeah. Yeah. Long across the room. >> A lot of lot of tire kicking. Yeah. Tire kick. He wore me down, I think, is is that was that was always my thing. You know, that at the end of the day, I'm going to wear you down. Like, I'm I'm I'm going to I'm going to get what I want, but it might take me a minute. And >> I know what I know what I want. I go after it. >> That's right. That's right.

Wow. Everything this guy says is sexy. >> Makes you feel good. >> It's getting hot in here. >> Well, congratulations. You got a real handsome one. >> Oh, you don't. If If only we could all be so lucky. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, uh, Ben, you sort of teed up the topic of valuation. One of the things that we deal with a lot on our intake side here in in our firm is when we're taking the uh case on, we're asking questions. the clients, they have two big questions that they ask every single time and it's not even on my radar at that time in the beginning.

You guys already know what it is. One, uh, what's your fee? >> Yeah. >> And then two, how much is this case worth? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. And the the fee thing I think is needs to be like talked about first and and maybe this is good, maybe this is bad. I in Atlanta and and having the ability to travel as much as I know you travel a ton and I do and Ben does as well. you know, going across the country, going across the world, you don't you don't drive down any of these metropolitan areas and see the the just, you know, like you're drinking from a fire hose of these advertising lawyers, right?

They're everywhere. And it's just like, >> you know, and and it's and it's well, you know, we started it we do work for for 30 or 40%, right? No, we we'll do it for 35. We'll do it for 20. Now we're, you know, now we're in these 25 and this is not a not a jab, but it you get these 25% lawyers and it's like, you know, at a point in every product, it's got to suffer, right? Like if you're cutting overhead and you're cutting fees and you're cutting what you know that the price of a product, it's going to start to suffer.

And and you know, to your point, it's like the first call I get, it's like, well, this lawyer told me I could I could do it for X. And I'm like, that that's fine. And you know, there are plenty of times where Ben and I make the decision that, you know, this is not the client that that we need to represent. If we're if we're already worried about, you know, the difference in in a 5% fee, you know, and they're not necessarily worried about the product that they're going to get, you know, that's that's probably not the right client for us.

And so, we we've been lucky to be able to pick um pick and choose the clients that we take. And I think that a lot of lawyers forget that. It's just like, let's get as many as possible. But >> yeah, and I think and you know, like I said, I started off on the defense side and everyone knows that defense attorneys bill by the hour, right? Well, they've what they don't know and a consumer would never know is these attorneys that are being assigned to the defendant in a case, right? The insurance companies are now paying those attorneys a flat fee.

And I've talked to all of these defense attorneys because I'm still friends with a lot of them and they say, you know, when when we get these flat fee cases, you're not motivated to work the case up as much. So, it goes to what Trey was just saying about, you know, what what level of support do you want on your case? Do you want someone that's just trying to flip it quick and make a quick dollar, or do you want someone that's going to be invested with you and walking with you handinand every step of the way?

Because I mean it's the old adage is true. You you truly get what you pay for. But you know something to remember is you don't actually pay for it as a client, right? You you never come out of pocket to us. You don't pay for any expenses. We front those. You don't ever reach in your pocket and hand us a dollar. It just comes out of the settlement at the end. And so our interests are always aligned with our clients. You know, we want to do the best job possible, not just because we have integrity and want to have a good firm.

But we want those clients to appreciate the work that we have done for them. So I mean that's it's a it's a tough sell on people because you know they hear the percentage but you know if you break it down of you know how much work we're actually doing throughout the case and things like that it ends up being how it should be. >> I absolutely agree but I think that the consumer may not appreciate or have a level of appreciation what the difference is in the work that attorneys do. 100% agree. Our our product is is invisible for the most part, right?

>> Oh, yeah. >> The one thing where I think consumers should be concerned or they should at least know this is that the fee the and I have this conversation if I have to hop on an intake call >> your fee right now we're we're talking about a difference in percentages of of zero right now. >> Yeah. So, it makes a difference if you're picking just based on fee when you go to, let's say that you're going to pay a 25% fee. Okay, you pay 25% of a $10,000 settlement. Let's say there's like $7,000 in medical bills.

>> That doesn't turn out in your benefit, >> right? >> If you could have gone and paid a higher percentage, let's say it's 33% of 25,000, which is the state minimum, >> right? with a lot less incurred medical bills, your net settlement at the end is so much more important than what the percentage you're going to pay from the settlement. >> It's like what what is it say seeing the forest for the trees, right? If you if you just if the client stays shortsighted and looking at like you said a zero number right now, I'm just going to go what might save me money in the long run.

>> Yeah. >> Is that really going to happen? Probably not. I think the reason a lot of consumers get hung up on that is because the only other time they're experienced in contingency fee is like sales commissions for like a real estate transaction. So they're like, "Well, my house is valued at $800,000. I want to get a broker that'll do it for 5% instead of 6%." >> That makes sense. >> Yeah. >> But that's not at all. >> No, that's not that's not how we, you know, and and when you look at the the product that you're buying, right?

And and using your analogy of real estate, right? like and these real estate agents, they some of them have varying uh degrees of of contingency, right? But at the end of the day, you're still getting the house, right? That the house is the goal at that point, right? >> In our world, the goal is arbitrary. We have no idea what the goal is. We the goal is as much as we can get for for you know that that is adequately compensating the client, right? And so I think that that the problem that the the everyday consumer doesn't see is the value of the product.

you know is I think inherently you know call it recession call it the American way call it you know the way that that that people function if if I can pay less for something I want to pay less for it but the problem is what a lot of people don't look at is is the the different in the value of the product itself and and and it's very difficult for us to say I'm better no I'm better no I'm better right and and and you know what at the end you don't know until the numbers on the table and and and for consumers they don't know what they're buying so their only >> you know their only retort is to is hey we take 5% less we take 10% less so and so is down the street said they were going to do it for this and I I kind of draw the the the connection or the comparison to buying the the sofa at at Walmart versus buying the sofa at I don't know one of the nice crate barrel right so you're getting a crate and barrel I don't know if crate barrel is even nice but it's nice for sounds it's nice for me I don't know you're getting a crate and barrel you know couch versus Walmart couch and I think that there's a lot of education that needs to be that needs to be given to the consumer that not all lawyers are equal not all firms are equal.

Not all, you know, uh, settlements are equal. And, and, you know, kind of segueing that into our our main topic of of, you know, not all settlements are created equal. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I, >> if you're on, let's say you're a consumer, you don't practice law, but you know what you know, how would you pick your attorney? >> Oh, man. Um, word of mouth. Yeah, that'd be my primary thing if I know someone who has been through an experience because I mean you think about it again. I go back to let's remove that that that a legal case or your representation is anything different than a normal widget or product, right?

If I'm now interested into the car market, I'm not just going to go to the first car dealership that I see and say, "All right, that's the car I want." If I if I don't have any experience in the cars at all, >> I'm not just going to pick the first car. I'm going to I'm going to research online. I'm going to I'm going to talk to friends. Hey, what kind of car do you have? Have you had a good experience with it? What have you had any problems? You know, I'm going to read some reviews. I'm going to do all of the all of the research to determine, is this the best product?

Not just because it's the first thing in my face and not the first thing I see on a billboard, not the first thing that gets jammed down my throat on TV or radio or whatever. And I think that that the general consumer should do more research as to quality versus the first thing they see. >> Yeah. I mean, I think about am I going to get the attorney when I call the office, right? And just about every single one of my clients ends up with my personal cell phone. You know, it's the same number that my kids have, my parents have just because I want them to be able to get in touch with us.

And I know Trey's the same way. And it just goes back to how we like to handle our cases where we're walking with the client the whole way. So, if you need to get in touch with us, you can, right? you know, we might be in a deposition or something, but you can rest assure that you're going to get a text or however you communicated with us, it's going to come back the same way. So, that that's what I would look for is how am I going to get the best communication possible, but not just from some office staff member.

Like, you want to actually talk to the person that's working your case, right? I think it's important if you need the lawyer, you should be able to get to them. And and and maybe this is my pitch to the to the consumer. If you're not talking to your lawyer, they're not calling you back. You need to get a new lawyer. I I think that's just the reality. There are plenty of occasions where and Ben and I have staff where where staff members will call back clients, right? It that that's part of the experience.

Maybe I can't get to you right away. Maybe Ben's in court. Maybe we're doing something. And we want to make sure that client is is feeling heard. But at the same time, if you need to talk to your lawyer, you should be able to talk to your lawyer. They're the ones that are representing. They're they're the ones you're paying for, right? And I think somewhere if my wife sees this, she's going to be laughing because every time I talk to a client, I'm like, "This is my cell phone. This is the same number my wife and my kids at.

Like, if you need me, call me." like and and you know it and it's a bit salesy but it's it's real. I mean I I mean I I get thousands of text messages calls a day and and you know it's important to us and and it's important to I think all of the good firms that they that their clients have access to them and and you know we see these massive firms that take in these huge volumes of cases and you just can't field and have a you know a good client attorney relationship if if you don't have access and I'm not saying that you're a bad lawyer if you don't have the or you know it's a bad firm you don't have the cell phone.

I'm like that that that's probably overreaching for a lot of folks, but that's >> I think it's important that you have access and whether that's email or or some type of messaging system or texting or whatever it is, you should be able to talk to your lawyer. >> Yeah. I I really it's like if you're going to the doctor and you're going to have a procedure, right? You know, and you know, we try cases. So, you know, we we see the case all the way till the very end if if need be. Well, if you're going in to have a procedure, right, you want to actually talk to the doctor that's going to be doing the procedure on you >> versus just talking to the front office staff the whole time.

>> And then all of a sudden, this guy shows up, says, "All right, you're about to go under anesthesia." And you know, you're like, "Who are you?" Right? That's the last thing you want to have happen. And so, we kind of take that mentality to our law practice of >> we don't know how far this case is going to go. You know, a lot of our cases are in litigation. So, we prepare them as if they're going to go to trial because that's the only way to get real value. >> You know, there's trial value and there's settlement value, but to get the ultimate value on a case, you have to work it up like it's going to go the distance because the insurance companies know that, you know, that if if a case is being kind of mismanaged or not pushed properly, they're not going to offer as much money as maybe the case is worth, right?

right? They need to they know who will try a case and who won't try a case, right? So, when you're picking a lawyer, that's something that's also important because again, that's this why I talk about my defense work. But there was a plaintiff's attorney when I was first starting out that the insurance company knew that right up until the day before trial, that guy would settle that case, right? He was just he was never going to try the case. And every everyone knew it. great guy, unbelievable guy, but everyone knew this case is never going to go in front of a jury.

And so when they know that, I mean, they've got tons of resources, tons of money, and so these insurance companies will collect that data and use it to their advantage because I mean, >> let's be honest, they know everything. >> Yeah. They're they're in the business of saving money, right? They're not in the business of paying out claims. They're in the business of saving money for themselves. It's worth 80 plus billion dollars. And so, you know, you got to use whatever you can as a lawyer to your advantage to make sure that the client is taken care of because at the end of the day, they're the one who had their life changed by something that happened that they didn't ask for.

>> Mhm. >> Right. And it's I've I've been through it >> personally personally, you know, and it's it's tough because you you're like, "What? This happened to me." Right. And they don't care. I mean, there's just no other way to put it. They just they don't. And you got to figure out a way to make them care. And the only way to do that is to, you know, listen to your attorney's advice, make sure you do what you're supposed to do on your end. But ultimately, it's about like getting your story across, right?

And that's ultimately what a trial is. We hope that you, you know, that doesn't go that far for their own sake because I mean is it is stressful for somebody. But >> I think probably the most important part too for for consumers is and I would say this forever, but even in a car wreck, get a lawyer. Like >> yeah, >> this whole like and and we're in the south, right? So everybody's like, you know, and I use this this analogy all the time. You pick up the phone, hey man, how are you? I'm good. How are you?

And we're so quick to say I'm good. And and I would say for the majority of people, we're not good, man. We're not we're not just out here like everybody's not just great, right? Like >> like we just say it people have going on. That's what we're supposed to say. But and and being in the south, I know you're from Cali and you probably haven't seen it as much, but like in the south, man, everybody's, "Hey, I'm fine, man. How are you?" And it's almost like >> the worse they are, the nicer they are about it.

And and >> they don't want to burden people with their problems >> and and these these calls are being recorded and like they're like, "Oh man, I've known my agent for for 30 years. They would, you know, Tom would never do me wrong." It's like, man, that agent is selling you. >> Yeah. He is not money. >> He is not a part of the claim. >> And and and yeah, Tom may be a great guy. He may go to church with him, but he's not the one that's processing it. And that that adjuster is adversarial to you. Their entire job, their entire purpose is to diminish the value of your claim.

And I don't care how big or how small. >> It is not it doesn't you don't come out of pocket for a self contingency base. Get a lawyer. There is a lawyer that will take your case. >> That needs to be repeated that job. Oh, that not that part. >> We'll continue saying that part. >> Yeah. No, but the the part about what the adjusters's job is, I think so many people they you watch college football and you're like, "Oh, my I'm in good hands with my my neighbor." Yeah. >> They're >> their entire >> They're not your friend.

No, >> their entire >> purpose is to maximize shareholder returns. Correct. Right. That's it. Point blank. Hard stop. >> Correct. That means not paying out on your claims >> or trying to diminish it as much as possible. Yeah. And and the further I mean we all know this like they're incentivized. That person sitting across the the phone from you is incentivized. The more money that they can save, the more money they make personally. Personally, right? Not even for the company. And it's like it's it's just really sad.

We see it a lot of times like, well, I don't want to sue the guy that hit me. We ain't suing the guy that hits you yet. Like we're not even there. And they're not 99% of the time they're not responsible. And that's something that a consumer should know cuz this is one of the first questions I get is look, I don't want to sue that person or whatever. In every person's policy for their automobile insurance, it says we will provide a defense for you. >> Mhm. >> Right. So just because and in Georgia you cannot sue an insurance company, right?

You have to sue the person that injured you or the company or whoever caused you harm. >> Why is that council? Uh, we don't have enough time, I'm sure. Um, >> call your legislator. Yeah. >> But at the at the end of the day, that insurance company is paying for the lawyer on the other side. It's going to be not the guy who hits you paying the judgment at the end of the day. >> It's going to be insure insert insurance company, right? That's that's who pays all this stuff. They pay the lawyer. They pay if they make a decision that is adverse to their policy holder.

they're going to pay that judgment on his behalf anyway. So, >> don't feel bad about bringing a claim. Excuse me. Because it's your one chance. >> I had a case one time where this this girl called me, bad accident. And I said, you know, well, what happened? You know, this that and the other. And I said, okay, well, you know, you need to see a doctor or something. So she sees somebody and then just kind of flakes out on it and then calls me two years later. And the two years is important because in Georgia you have two years to file or file a lawsuit to protect your claim.

And so she she calls me two years afterwards and says, "My my back is just killing me and I think I have to have surgery." >> I said, "Well, did you ever go do anything about it?" "No." And I had to explain to him said, "I understand life happens, but you've got to look after yourself. And if you're at all concerned about any part of your body about being hurt after an accident, just go get it checked out, right? No, no one can ever fault you for going to get examined because you're worried about an injury." >> And you know, I'll be that that person, her father actually appreciated my honesty on that so much and gave me a gift card to Jill's or something afterwards.

But I said, you know, two for ones. >> I would love to help you at least. >> Yeah. But you just you waited too long. >> Yeah. >> To do anything about it. And it is it is your one chance. And you know what Trey was saying earlier about how in the South everyone's quick to say, "I'm good." >> That also applies to your doctors. >> Mhm. >> If you're hurting, tell them. They're there to help you. But if if you walk in and you're saying, "How you feeling?" They don't mean right then. >> Right. >> Right. If if if you if you go let's say you go to a physical therapy appointment on Thursday and your next one's on Tuesday and you walk in on Tuesday and you feel okay, but on Saturday and Sunday you were laying on the couch all day because your back was so tight and you were just miserable.

Tell them about that. Right. Because you know it's you we say this as lawyers, if I know about it, I can handle it. >> Yeah. >> But if I don't know about it, there's nothing I can do. Yeah. >> Right. you you've got to put everything out there. Don't be embarrassed. It's your it is your one chance to have this situation writed. And our legislature, this is important for everyone to know, our legislature, that means the government of Georgia has decided that the only way to fix harm that's been done to you is through compensation.

>> There is no way to put you back a minute before this happens and you just decide to turn right instead of left. Right? There's no way to do that. So, our government has decided that you are to be compensated for this. So, use that because you might need that money down the road for something. You know, it's I I had back surgery from an accident. It's awful. You know, having to deal with the stuff that comes with it, right? You think it's going to be fine down the road, but it's just it it nothing will ever be the same once you're injured.

You know, it's like if you break a bone, sure, they can throw a cast on you and it'll be repaired, but it's it's always going to be a little bit weaker. >> Yeah. >> Than it was before the injury. >> You know, talking about uh communicating with your physicians, I can't tell you how many times I've been in a situation where we're evaluating a case on the tail end and the client is like, you know, how come they're not they're not the insurance company hasn't offered to tender the entire policy limits?

And they're like, how come they're not doing that? I'm still in pain. And I I will literally sit down with them and look at their uh medical records and be like, "You you said here that you were feeling like two weeks of four out of 10 and then you discharged because there was no more pain." Right? >> And they're like, "No, well, I just didn't want to treat anymore." I was like, "Well, you >> you can't you you got to communicate the the correct way. You can say, I'm in pain, but I don't want to treat." But don't be dishonest with the physician in order to get out of treatment because now you're 100% right.

And I think that that and I say this to all my clients. Again, I I've had the pleasure of representing some really really great people that that in my opinion really want to do quote unquote the right thing, right? They don't want to create these situations where they're where they're creating treatment or they're creating a narrative that they're more hurt than they are, right? And and I think that what happens is you almost kind of air or they heir on the side of playing He-Man. And I tell all my folks, I'm like, "Hey, don't this now is not the time to be a hero.

Now is not the time to be a tough guy, right? Like you want to communicate to these doctors on what's going on." And you know, a pretty timely conversation because of the changes that we've seen in legislature in the last last session, right? that we flipped over from this, you know, medical dynamic where it was kind of more of a a formula to now we've got more of this intangible piece that that we're going to be required to uh be able to prove up and and and show the insurance company that that this that this had more of a general effect less about a dollars and cents, right?

It used to be, you know, we've all practiced law for 15 years now. So, it used to be here's your medicals and here's the number, right? This is what you would get. So, it was very very monotonous, very conveyor belt. Now, it's more about how did this affect your everyday life, right? How how did this, you know, keep you from playing with your grandkids? How did this affect your gardening? How did this affect your your driving? How did this affect your job? Right? And there's a lot more subjective information that has to come through.

And the only way that we're really able to get that in is through your conversations with your providers, with your doctors, with your physical therapists. I find that >> family and friends. >> I find that physical therapists know more than anybody, right? you're laying there on that table and you're you're in pain or you're vulnerable, but you're laying there, you're there with them for 30 minutes to an hour and you're having these conversations about how this is affecting your life and and a a good physical therapist is documenting those things, right?

And those things are important and and you know, I think it just goes back to again telling the consumer, telling the patient, telling the the the person who's injured, it's not now's not time to be the hero, not it's not time to be a tough guy. Tell your providers what's going on with you and and and how this this wreck and how these injuries have affected you. >> Yeah. the sto the story matters more now than it ever did before. >> Yeah, tot reform kind of, you know, gave us a new a new groundwork and and you know, I think that there's a lot of challenges to it.

I I personally obviously I don't think any any of us agree that we should have had this big TOR reform change. However, I think that it what it has done is is really make lawyers be better lawyers. I think it it makes us uh tell those stories. It makes us argue for our client and argue that, you know, that hey, this this did affect their life. And it doesn't really matter that they went and had health insurance or didn't. we're we're talking about how this affected this person and and that's that's the way we've always done it and that's important to us and and and I think that that that makes that makes lawyers be lawyers and it makes your cases um you know really stand apart from from you know kind of the neck my back kind of stuff >> and the issue at that >> the 25% stuff >> and the 25% >> the issue becomes getting an insurance adjuster to understand what you've gone through right and until litigation happens it's really tough to do that so that's like we're all just talking about that's why it's extremely important to communicate like you cannot stress that enough.

You have to communicate everything to everyone. >> I'm glad you said it that way. I've got like a fundamental question, a philosophy almost. Do you is your perspective that you need to we need to educate the adjuster as to what happened so that the adjuster understands the plaintiff or do you think we have to educate the adjuster to show how much exposure their client? >> I I think that's interesting. I think you know we we've I think there's there's two types of interactions. I don't say two types of lawyers because I think some we can be chameleon sometimes.

I think that there's two types of lawyers. And you got the lawyers who bang on the table, scream, and you don't know what you're doing and yelling at these adjusters and creating more of an adversarial situation, right? And and and then you've got the other side of it that's like >> we understand that this is their job. We understand that this is their process. We understand this is monotony for them, right? We were all joking kind of before we started recording about the headsets and the the you know, the call centers and all that kind of stuff.

They've have thousands of files they deal with, right? And so, you know, kind of the way that I handled it and I and Ben and I have a very similar philosophy that it's let me tell you what's going on. Let me empower you to go and talk to your your superiors and explain the story and understand who our client is and understand what's going on with them and how this has negatively affect them. Tell them the story so that they are engaged and that they understand so that they can then go and and be an advocate on that side for you.

And I think that empowering the adjusters to go and talk to the people that hold that money uh I has been hugely successful for us. >> I mediate also, but one thing that I've realized is you have to give them a reason to go up the chain of command. Insurance companies are the most bureaucratic organizations you could ever imagine. Everyone has a boss that has a boss that has a boss. And with each boss, they're largest corporations in the world, right? But each boss comes with a another level of authority, right?

So the person that calls your client they want about their car has the bottom level of authority. Well then it'll get transferred to person B and then C and then D and it just keeps going up and only until you like it's like a video game until you reach the final boss. That's where all the money is, right? And so you have to give what I like to do is and I it when you've when you've tried cases, you understand how to do it a little bit easier, but you've got to paint the picture to them and just say, "Look, if I go try this case, this is what's going to happen, right?

You give them like a 30,000 foot view of how the facts are going to be laid out in front of 12 strangers." Because this is just to let everybody know, this is how an insurance company evaluates a case. What has happened in trial verdicts in that county that your case is pending? >> That's important to repeat again. >> Yeah. And real quick though, the case is going to be pending in the county in which the person that hit you or caused the injury lives. Not where you live, not where it happened, but it's so if you get hit by someone that lives in Lee County, Georgia, that case is going to be filed in Lee County.

Insurance company's going to know that. And the counties in Georgia carry different values as far as claims go. So, if you're hitting I used to live in Athens and I I think that's the best example because if a person that lives in Clark County causes an accident and injures you, you're going to get one value. If someone that lives in the neighboring county, Okone, hits you, same injuries, everything. Try the same case. The value in Okone is going to be lower than Clark County. And >> explain why that is.

>> It's just the demographics of the county, right? You've got different people. I what I've noticed is that when the county is made up of more rural workers, right, that are out in like working on farms and stuff, they're a little less sympathetic to people's injuries. Right now, if you if you've lost a limb, you're put in a wheelchair, had some major surgery, it's different. But when it's more soft tissue in nature, maybe you just have a few injections, it's almost as if they can't be bothered with it, right?

They're they're worried about so many different things when they come into that courtroom. And so these insurance companies pull all of that information, right? Every verdict that has ever happened in every county, they know that. And so as soon as that case hits their desk, they look at the county >> and it just gets routed to like a different evaluation level. And I think that's a that's an important point, too, because you know, kind of what we've been tiptoeing into of our quote unquote topic of the day, right?

is that not all these cases are treated equal. They're not the same, right? And just because, you know, your brother or your sister or your cousin or your friend got a a specific settlement amount or a specific verdict amount, that doesn't mean that that's what you're going to get. You know, no two injuries are the same. No two people are the same. No two, you know, insurance companies are the same, insurance companies the same. No, no two venues are the same. They don't evaluate them that way. And I think that, you know, to to piggyback off what Ben said, you know, you you you take an Athens type place and you take these blue collar style workers and they're they're used to dealing with crap, right?

These guys are these are these are these are manual laborers that they wake up with back pain, right? They all wake up with knee pain, they all wake up with these various things, right? And and so when they see some, you know, I I refer to them as minglingers, right? You see a malinger up there on the stand telling you about I can't go to work because my my my back is bothering me, right? And >> but it wasn't communicated to the doctor, >> right? And it wasn't you didn't tell anybody. You you there there there are pictures of you on Facebook going body surfing, right?

Like they're just they're just not sympathetic to that. And I think that that aside from the injuries, you also have, you know, venue play, right? And and you know, I'm from Barto County, right? Carterville. Love that place. It's great. It's and it's much bigger than it was when I when I grew up there. But, you know, being from Carterville in in Barto County, a million dollars is a lot of money, right? Adversely, you get to Fulton, million dollars is a million dollars. Everybody knows what a million dollars is.

they're used to it. It doesn't it doesn't inflame people as much as it would in in a more rural county. So, I think that, you know, venue as we're seeing, I think really really and and and as we're now having to get away from the the calculation of of damages and more of the the the story behind it, I think it matters even more. I think that that you know, you really got to think about and and going back to the consumer gear, like pick a lawyer that understands venue. Pick a lawyer that understands how to tell that story and how to tell that story in that venue, right?

Like it's it's important. Um, you know, I I I do pretty well in front of a bunch of rural country folks. So, that's who I am. And I I I I like going in those places and and you know, at the same time, it I think that you just need to understand that that there is a holistic approach to every one of these cases and none of them are the same. And as a consumer, just because your buddy got, you know, $250,000 for, you know, neck back injury doesn't mean >> that's what your case is worth. Maybe worth more, maybe worth less, but there's a lot of variables.

Trey, how about if my buddy got a $250,000 settlement and he just had soft tissue injury? I have to have like threelevel cervical fusion and I can't get more than $25,000. Is that my lawyer's fault? Where's What What's going on with that? Back on the house. >> That's such a loaded Thanks for putting me on the spot. That's such a such a loaded question. I mean, you know, look, unfortunately, we are governed by limits of liability, right? Like, and unfortunately, I don't know the numbers. So, I'm going to make one up.

99% of the people floating around here have minimum policy limits, which in Georgia we know is $25,000. I think that's why >> I think it's three out of five. >> There you go. Okay. You're smarter than I am. So, yeah. I mean, it but it's most of them, right? And so, I feel like we always whenever we're pitching to consumer, we're talking to consumers, we we're like beating in their head, um, um, um, and if you don't know what M is, it's uninsured or underinsured motors coverage. And I I jokingly have kind of like evolved it a little bit.

I think it's it's fu, right? Remember the old clothing brand for us by us? Like that's what it is. You buy this insurance for you to protect you and and it's foou insurance. You have to carry this insurance cuz you know again using your number these people are running around with $25,000 in coverage. So in your example I if the injuries are there and and the insurance is there it may be worth more maybe worth less but >> we're we're handicapped a lot of time or handcuffed a lot by by these limits. And the only way that you can actively protect yourself against being capped, you know, in that situation, you've got to now have a surgery.

And there were plenty of occasions. Unfortunately, Ben and I represented a a very nice uh family about a month ago, and their father was killed uh in a in a motorcycle wreck. >> And unfortunately, we all we've all heard this story, all the lawyers have heard this story, no m right. And so this person, you know, wasn't necessarily doing anything wrong. They weren't drunk. they, you know, they didn't do anything, you know, necessarily uh punitive. They just they they ran a stop sign and and unfortunately didn't see a motorcycle hit hit the guy.

Um and, you know, he's he was in his 70s, very healthy, had a you know, a wife, the whole thing, and grown kids and there was just no insurance and and and you know, you kind of talk about your friend who had a had a got $250,000 settlement. That's awesome. Their lawyer probably did a great job for them and and if it's soft tissue, sounds like they did a fantastic job for him. Unfortunately, you're capped on, you know, what you're protected by by yourself. And and so I think that, you know, again, beat it in the heads.

It needs to be said 10,000 times. There needs to be billboards for that. Get insurance and the correct type. >> Yeah. Well, that goes back to it, right? Which is this is the you were saying this this just like flows out. Like I it's you know, you talk about you go back to talking about your adjuster Tom, right? The guy in your small town who you've been with for 35 years and he's always taking care of you. send you Christmas cards and yeah, send you send you uh edible arrangements for your birthday, whatever it is, right?

>> Man, you better insurance agents than ever, right? Right. >> Well, so but but but these guys, they sell you like, "Yeah, sure. We know about um M. We're going to sell M." Yeah, that's great. You know, and but I think the general consumer doesn't understand there's two types, right? We've got add-on, which is truly the one that you need. The the the add-on excess um is what you need. We don't, you know, if you read in there offset or traditional or any of those kind of things, >> reduced by >> reduced by, you're buying nothing.

You're paying an extra premium. And and and you know, obviously I I hate to jump in, but I want to make this important note for the consumers because I think one thing that consumers don't know is that not all jurisdictions even permit add-on. >> In California, for example, you you're prohibited from purchasing add-on. It's all reduced by policies. So, if you live in one of these jurisdictions like the state of Georgia and you have access to a product such as add-on um protection, >> right, >> 100% you should get that.

>> Absolutely. And and and get as much as you can reasonably afford. I think that's that's the other piece because, you know, insurance is that I think about the AFLAC duck floating around all the time like you don't need it until you do, right? And then when you do, you really need it. >> Yeah. I've had I've had clients that have said, you like, "Well, I don't want to go after my own insurance because they're afraid that my premiums are going to go up by making this claim." And I will quote my father, but I have never seen someone's policy go up because they made a claim.

And the reason because is because the that carrier, right, is able to subregate, which means get their money back from the person that caused the accident and injury if they so choose, right? So they they have a way to be repaid so they won't they don't take it out on their uninsured. But yeah, I I become like a insurance salesman at the end of every case. >> We all are. >> Get get more as much. And in Georgia, it's important to note you can only buy as much um as you have in liability. >> Mhm. >> Right.

So you can't try to gain the system and get a $25,000 liability policy and then get like a $250,000 policy. So that's why Trey said get as much as you can afford. So, whatever liability you can afford, matching that with M add-on is like six bucks extra. Like, it's it's so cheap. But and I I >> I truly think that >> insurance agents are dropping the ball because I mean that would be an extra in I mean they're they're getting paid off of that, right? And but it's it's shocking to me. I think that they're it messes with their exposure though, right?

Like, so you got if you're selling $25,000 offset, they're getting that premium and they know they're never going to have to pay it because you got state minimum limits. >> They're literally sell if you're buying here's the announcement. If you have $25,000 in offset and you pay $1 for it or you pay $100 for it, you are buying zero coverage. There is no coverage for that. It doesn't exist. And I I think that >> unless unless it's like a >> unless a true true, >> but like I mean, come on. We're I would want to roll a dice, >> right?

I mean, it's it's it's crazy. And three out of five times, >> yeah, >> right? >> You know, if I had um he was kind enough to come on here. He lives in the community, a great guy. Uh I had an insurance broker on and he told me that a little bit of inside scoop in the industry right now. There's a shift going on trying to push people into medical payments coverage >> as opposed to M and like high medical payments. >> 50,000 medical payments. I could I could guess why. >> Go for it. >> So, it it becomes like I'm terrible at math, but the when you get into M, it all it becomes a mathematical equation, right?

So, ex like example one would be, you know, you get hit by someone that's got a $25,000 policy and let's say you've got a $50,000 add-on policy, right? and you get that $25,000 first layer of coverage and then you go after your M coverage. The M company does not owe a single dime technically until the value is determined by a jury to be over $25,000. Right? So if you got if you went to trial and got a verdict for $26,000, they'd write you a check for a,000 bucks, right? Well, the medical payments comes in because there's a non-duplication of payments provision in all of these policies.

And so if they give you like a $50,000 med pay policy and you've got your $50,000 policy, you go get your $25,000, right? And let's just say your bills were 50, right? Instead of they're going to pay you that $50,000 in med pay and then you're going to go get a verdict for like $75,000. You're the 25's already been credited. Mhm. >> Well, they get an offset for that $50,000 in med pay so that the client isn't going to get anything for themselves >> and they're also not dealing pain and suffering and the in the individual piece.

Yeah, it's that's a fair point. >> It's only for the special damages which is the medical bills for the consumers >> which where we're where we're at in legislature right now. That makes so much more sense that hey, we're just going to pay this dollar for dollar. >> Done with it. We're out. We don't have to pay any, you know, we're not we're not exposing oursel to excess over medical >> because the true value of a claim is what I said at the beginning. It's what happened to you. >> Your medical bills aren't what happened to you.

>> Your injuries and your treatment are what happened to you. And so we have two types of damages. Special damages, which is, you know, medical bills, things you can actually put a you get a receipt for basically, right? Tangible. >> And then the general damages is the pain and suffering, which is seven different things. But >> that's what happened to you, right? That's that's the part of your case that matters most to anybody. And that's why, you know, you got to tell everyone what's going on. You know, some clients will even I've encouraged them to do this, but like just keep a little diary of things.

You know, the most impactful stories at trial or at mediation or in depositions or even just telling your lawyer so that they can tell the insurance adjuster are real world examples, right? >> Yeah. I I will never forget a case where I was actually defending it and the the guy was a you know he was from Walton County, you know, just a really good guy. I think he was a pastor. I asked him about his injuries and stuff and he's just you know Yeah. I had I think he had surgery, you know, but he real tough guy, right?

Just a really good person. And so I was like, okay. So then I deposed his wife afterward. And so he's sitting at the head of the table kind of away from everybody. And I'm asking us, you know, my question was just, "Hey, tell me about your husband um since this accident." And she goes, "His job is to put the star on the tree and since this accident, he can't." And I I just hear him >> break down. And I called up the insurance company. I was like, >> "You better pay this case because >> you don't want this in front of a jury, right?

12 people hear this story. Like I still this is that was 10 plus years ago. I still get chills just thinking about it because it was the most concrete and just real example that >> that anybody could relate to. >> Yeah. >> But if if you don't >> make note of that or if you if you can't get on the floor to play with your grandkids or your kids and you have to stay up on the couch, like just make note of it because that that matters and you should be compensated for that change in your life, right? You didn't ask for that to happen.

It's so digestible for a jury, too. Like, I I know we all have kids and and that's my job, too, right? Like, and and putting yourself in the in the position of a juror, right, sitting there listening to this, like, that's something I can understand. I'll never be able to understand a a broken arm, right? I've ever broken my arm. I I don't understand that. Does that hurt? I'm sure it does. It sounds terrible, but you you you don't have real empathy for the situation, right? Right. And I think that there's a huge difference in having sympathy and empathy and and using that example and being able to relate to a jury in that level of of kind of real everyday stuff.

I mean, that's huge. Yeah. I've never heard that story. That's >> and that goes back to why, you know, your example earlier. It's like, hey, I had a soft tissue case, but I got 250. You know, obviously the coverage would have to be there, but at the same time, you can have soft tissue injuries that greatly affect your life, right? We don't know in your example, we don't know how old the person was, what their activity level was like. There's there's still interruptions that can occur. And to quote my father, properly tried, those facts can be laid out in the most valuable way, right?

when you when you have those examples to tell someone because we're not able to make what's called the golden rule argument, right? Imagine this was you can't do that, right? That's the first objections would be made and then start all over, right? So, >> the only way you can get around that is coming up with examples that make you put yourself in that person's shoes, right? When you when you hear that story about the guy in the Christmas tree, you just you transport yourself there like, man, what if I couldn't put my kid on my shoulders anymore?

You don't have to have surgery. If you had if you had some kind of soft tissue thing in your back or your neck or something and you can't do that anymore >> and your kids's three years old and you know, we've all seen these things on Instagram where like you've got your kids are with you. >> You got 14 more summers. Yeah. You got 12 more Christmases, right? >> Yeah. Then you you find out what those statistics are. Those experiences become even more valuable, right? You don't want to miss those things. And then now all of a sudden you can't put your kid like I mean my youngest is 10 years old right now.

We have a baby on the way. My youngest is 10. So like she's over that. >> Mhm. >> When my son's born, if you told me that I couldn't put him on my shoulders for like that period of time where it's so much fun, I would it would kill me. Right. And so if that gets taken away from somebody, >> that's real. You got to tell them about it. >> Yeah. So along those lines, I think one conversation I've had other attorneys on the podcast before, but a conversation I haven't had is if a consumer has a case right now and they they're sitting on uh an offer of settlement right now and they're debating whether they should accept it or litigate it.

What what should that consumer be thinking about? >> One's expenses, right? So we're saying it's the offers come in and litigation has not been started. >> Correct. >> Okay. I would say that well first of all a lot of people don't understand this right you sign a contract with a lawyer and it's contingency based we all know that I don't get paid unless you do very clear right you no no fees unless you win right we've seen the little billboards seen the advertisements right what a lot of consumers that that Ben and I experienced because we get a lot of cases referred to us from other lawyers uh who have already pre-signed the case right so they they were represented by a a lawyer that is not us and the lawyer who is not us has decided hey or the client has said hey we think we want this go to litigation what I and Ben spent Ben and I spend a lot of time doing is explaining to them that there is an escalation piece of that that contract, right?

And so there is a bit of a financial understanding that needs to be done because 90% of these cases or 90% of these these these contracts that exist between the client, the injured party and the law firm have an escalation piece that that says that the contingency fee ex accelerates or or it increases if you take it to to trial. And I know you know this and but you put it into litigation. So there's there's a bit of a balancing need to be done. you know, you need you need to understand that, you know, is the number that I'm taking pre-settlement with my lawyer's fee and the expenses that we've already incurred, what is my what is my real number?

What am I taking home? Right? And and I think that that needs to be discussed mainly by your lawyer or with your lawyer, right? They're they're the ones that are going to have a reasonable expectation or reasonable understanding of what the cost is going to be to go and try this case. And I think that that gets lost, right? And so, traditionally, you'll see contracts at 35% or 33% pre-litigation. You you get ready to put your case into into trial and you the second you file that complaint, your lawyer's fee now goes to 35 or 40%, right?

So, you're dealing with more percentage. However, that's not really the big piece. We're talking we're talking, you know, a third or a 5% increase. Not that really big of a deal because we're doing a lot more work justifiable. Understand it however you want. However, there's a lot of expenses that come out whenever you're trying these cases. I mean, we've got experts that we have to call and and and most cases, 99% of cases have to have expert witnesses, right? We've got to talk to that doctor, and doctors are expensive.

You know, they they have to take time from their day and be deposed and and and you know, be be u be interviewed and and and have to review your treatment and understand all these things going and we have to pay for that time. We've also got to, you know, pay for accident reconstructionist and a lot of different expenses that come out that are hugely, hugely expensive. And so a lot of times, you know, it may not make financial sense to put that case in litigation, which is, I guess, counter to what we do, but there are plenty enough cases that need to be tried and that need to go in down that road as long as it makes financial sense.

At the end of the day, our job is to make sure that that person is compensated. Ben talked about it. We can't roll back the hands of time and until we get that technology, the only thing we have is to get you reasonably compensated. And we're going to do that in the best way that we can. But that may not always mean going and running up $50,000 $60,000 in expenses and increasing our fee because at the end of the day that might not put more money in your pocket and that's what we want to do. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.

I think you just got to listen to your lawyer, right? You know, any lawyer that's good at what he does or should be able to look at, okay, this is the offer, compare it to the facts and circumstances of the case and, you know, see if like, hey, look, this is ridiculous, but you know, we're all obligated to run these things by and that's when we have those conversations like Trey said, like, hey, look, we can never promise you anything, right? That's the if and everyone should know if a lawyer promises you a value to your case, talk to somebody else be because you you just you can't you can't do that, right?

>> We we won't do it. We won't tell anybody what their number is. They they what's this thing worth? I'm >> the question I always ask him. I said said I've I hate asking this question, but I've learned that I have to. What are you wanting to walk away? >> Yeah. >> With this case because >> reasonable expectation >> because you know they'll say I want a million dollars. Well, you know, I'd love for that to happen, but it's just not going to because of X, Y, and Z, right? There's not that much coverage. Your injuries don't justify it.

You know, there's there's so many circumstances that dictate the value. But, you know, if if if the offer comes in and it's reasonable to the attorney's eyes, right? You can say, "Hey, look, because I can't promise you anything down the road, this is what you're looking at. If you're okay with this breakdown, you know, then that's that's fine. But, you know, if if you want to roll the dice, you know, I'm here with you and, you know, we'll always see if we can, you know, get that number up. But then at the same time, like Trey was saying, if you get an extra $5,000, does it justify the expense, >> the expenses that has that have come with it, right?

>> I think I think a lot of lawyers lose sight of the the second piece of our title, like lawyer and counselor. I think that the the biggest piece of our job is counseling our clients, right? And at the end of the day, I don't make the decision. Ben doesn't make the decision. You don't make the decision. Right? We work for our clients and they make the decision. And I think that kind of full full circle here, picking a lawyer is picking someone that you feel like or that you have a good relationship with that you can contact that can counsel you on these things and can tell you how to navigate these waters that you've never been in your entire life.

We do this hundreds and thousands of times a day, a year and all. We see it every single day. And I think that a big piece of what a lot of lawyers miss is that we are counselors, right? And that we are supposed to be counseling our client on the best decision for them in that exact moment. >> I like that. I picked up two things from you today, Trey. So if you see it on my social media, don't get upset. He tossed it up. >> Royalties boooo and counseling. >> There you go. There you go. >> See, you're the one coming.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. And I I use that same question actually uh when it's that prelitigation to litigation. Some cases we keep in house. You guys know this. some cases we refer out uh I ask what they believe is reasonable because if it's unreasonable and I know it to be unreasonable I let them it's still their choice it's their case but I know that we need to withdraw because I'm like there's >> if I already know and I could be wrong but I'm like there's no way we're going to get to that number I withdraw.

There is only one time out of maybe probably less than a dozen times I've had to have the conversation. There's only one time that the client said okay and we actually withdrew. And when I have that conversation, I'm like, because I'm going to >> hand it off to litigation counsel, I won't even I want them to know that I'm making a a really benevolent call. Like, we won't even have a lean. You can take it if you think you can get that somewhere else. >> Right. >> One time somebody took it and I found out about 30 days or so later that they just went and settled it at the figure we had gotten.

So now we have >> leans. Right. Right. Yeah. I've, you know, I've explained our contracts to clients before. I said, "Look, you know, you're going to see a piece in there that probably because like I thought we don't have to pay you anything." And he says, "Well, you know, we've got to protect ourselves because of situations like that." That's happened to everybody where someone tries to fire the lawyer after they've worked up a case and gotten some good money on the table because they want to essentially stiff the attorney and the doctors.

Right. Right. any bills, a hospital, all these things are outstanding that we as lawyers are responsible for making sure they're repaid. Same thing. Yeah, >> I've I've had that happen at least twice. >> That's something I think also clients don't understand because um now >> about two years ago, I started seeing it be more prevalent when the case settles, especially in pre-lit, uh the insurance company before they even send the acceptance will send a letter to the client be like, "Hey, uh we sent >> It's so unethical, man.

They're not supposed to be communicating directly with those people. But yeah, >> they I mean I can see why they do it. It it starts it's even if they've had a good process throughout now at the end of the case it throws this little distrust >> to kind of make that the relationship degenerates a little bit. >> That's the c the capstone for what they try to do. They're diminishing and and driving a wedge. I mean that's the whole point. That's exactly it. >> They're they're they're doing their job. But so clients just for the I know ex you guys know exactly what I'm talking about but for the consumer's benefit the the insurance companies will send a letter to the claimant that we represent being like hey before we they even send us a letter we settled this case this is how much money has gone out.

>> We haven't gotten any money and even when we get the money we can't it has to go into a client trust account you can everyone here >> license it's got time you know there's a whole thing with it. It's funny though, you you're right. You and it and it goes right back to these large corporations understanding having huge data minds and they understand consumer behavior. Consumer behavior is you open you open a letter. We all like getting mail. Like we don't because we get so much of it. But like as a general like my my mother-in-law loves nothing more than getting a letter in the mail, right?

Like she loves it. She got her name on it. Opens a letter. It's addressed to her. Cool. Let me read this letter. Oh wow. It's $45,000. And immediately without being able to help it, you're like, "That's that's 45 grand for me, right?" And and and then you get the call from your lawyer and it's like, "Well, no, you know, we've got the fee because we did the work. We've got the expenses that are associated with this. We got to pay back your medical providers. Don't forget those guys, right? They did they treated you when you were when you were banged up.

You know, we had a lot of clients that forget about those folks." And and there's a lot more moving pieces, but I I agree with you. I think it's it's an insurance play and it's Yeah. Bravo. But I I will I will tell the insurance or the consumer that your attorney should have gone through all these breakdowns first, right? You know, >> we know the number. >> You know, it's they they should know. What's interesting though is I had that same situation happen where they mailed the you know that my client knew >> that we had settled her case and she knew what she was going to get after everything was, you know, taken care of.

Well, they sent her the letter regardless. That check ended up getting stolen and negotiated by uh some a bank. And so then I I have to she's like, "Well, where's my check?" I said, "So here's what actually happened. We've now got to deal with this process." And so it just, like you said, it just creates this whole ripple because I'm obviously going to tell her the check got stolen, but at the same time, she's she's got this piece of paper assuming that I've already got the check from him as well. Well, now we got to add like three weeks onto this because they've got to >> it just creates an adversarial dynamic, which is way I want you unfortunately they're, you know, again, consumerf facing, they are the enemy in this immediate situation.

And that's that's there's no other way to sugarcoat that. >> You know, I found the same thing on property damage. So much so that when if we get a client like a fresh accident, I actually will speak to the client uh after they've been signed and let them know we're not going to send a letter of representation until the property damage process starts because they've they've the moment they get a an L from the firm, >> all of a sudden now it's like 3 weeks to determine liability. I don't know about this.

We're still investigating. You know, they kind of play the the the dragon. And you know, again, going back to it, I >> while we go up against them >> every day and right, we know that they are they are the the speed bump or the impediment to us being able to properly do our job. I I I do have a bit of uh admiration for the way that they do it. They're very good at what they do >> at the way they do it and the way that they because they know that that you know, injuries are going to take a while. I think that all every consumer knows that like it takes me a minute to get healed, right?

It's going to take the lawyer a minute to to get the the medical records in and get your get your case settled. It's going to take they know these things are going to take time. What they don't think about and what nobody talks about is is the property portion, right? >> Your truck's banged up. >> My guys got to go to work, right? >> Insurance company's still investigating. I've got I mean, we probably have 20 of these cases sitting right now where they're quote unquote still investigating the wreck. It's a rear collision.

There's no >> ifands or buts about who's at fault, right? But uh but my guy or my girl's car is still sitting at the shop and you know we we we Ben and I represent this nice uh two folks right now and they they they uh they own a gutter business, right? So they're they're on the they're on their way to to to hang gutters and they get rearended, blows up the back of their their trailer with their gutter materials and their their work truck. So now their work truck is now sitting in a in a body repair shop while the insurance company is investigating.

And every day that clicks by, these folks are losing money. And yes, we can we can go and argue lost wages and all those kind of things. That's fine. We can it's going to recoup. >> But so much later, >> but it doesn't help in the immediate. >> But you've got these folks that that are that are bluecollar folks and they're hard workers and they're doing what they're supposed to do and they're trying to make a living for their family and all the insurance company is doing is sitting there and trying to run out the clock and that's all they're doing.

They're just delaying it so that that forces them into a position where they feel like they've got to take whatever it is that they offer. Yeah. Again, I hate it. I admire the way that they go about screwing people. They're really good at it. >> And that that's why Plantus Bar is so helpful. And I wish consumers >> knew that and and believed that we were truly on their side and >> not the the ambulance chasers that that we get the moniker or, you know, the name for. It's it's sad, right? Because we truly represent the little guy.

And and I think that that you know even through legislature throughout the the last um you know year that we've been dealing with this we we've been called everything under the under the sun. >> Yeah. >> You know the interest companys are multi-billion dollar corporations. They're largest corporations in the world right and and we represent real people who have been really hurt in really crappy shitty situations. And you know some for some reason they control the narrative because they got more money and they you know these guys are ambulance chasers and they're they're out for blood.

And you know, we all know a lawyer joke, right? You know, nobody talks bad about these insurance companies. Everybody's like loves their agent. It's the it's the craziest dynamic that they can create. >> Well, so you know, it's funny you think about like the All State commercials, right? Like the mayhem guy where it's like the tree falls on the guy's car. You don't understand that like it's probably your own personal car insurance that's going to have to pay even though that your neighbor's tree limb fell by your car.

Because unless the neighbor knew that his tree was rotting and there was some issue, you're just And then you have to have the right kind of coverage, right? >> Yeah. Hopefully you have comprehensive >> and that and that policy is this thick of ways that they can get out of it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Comprehensive not collision is it's one of those things where you know they kind of on TV the insurance commercials that you see at all the football games and things like that they kind of make light of accidents right there.

there's like a huge crash and everyone's just standing there on their phone. There's not an ambulance. There's not a cop. It's just two people like, "Oh, you know, let's you know, State like a good neighbor State Farm's there. Jake from State Farm pops up and that's it." It's like, >> "Yeah, you're right. That's a good point. >> You know, >> they kind of they kind of minimalize it. I mean, everyday mainstream like you got like to your point, you got the the mayhem guys running around with the neck brace on all the time." Like that's funny.

Like that I mean that person that he's mocking is, you know, had a cervical fus, right? and he's the one that's, you know, causing all the issues, but it's not the person that's in the vehicle, right? It it's it's a marketing ploy to make everyone think that accidents aren't as bad as we are going we as plants attorneys are going to make them sound or seem, right? It's, >> you know, you watch these other car commercials, which you can understand the car commercial, right? Like, oh, it protected my p my passenger or whatever.

But again, you've never seen a State Farm commercial, an All State commercial, a Geico commercial where someone's in the hospital getting their medical payments, right? You get medical payments because you were hurt. It's >> your car is going to get fixed. It's always about the property damage. >> They just they sweep the injury part under the rug. >> And you know, we as consumers, all of us are conditioned to what we watch on TV. And so when you see these things, your immediate reaction was, well, I've seen stuff like that on TV.

It's not that bad, >> right? >> Well, we have another episode on that. >> Yeah, I agree that I I could talk for days on the on the, you know, the the mindset of all that. I think that, you know, it goes right back to it that at the end of the day, we just need to consumers need to do a better job of protecting themselves with coverage, with proper insurance, understand the insurance. I mean, again, you got your agent, make them explain it to you. Make him explain to you exactly how this stuff works. Um, and I and I I know that we're kind of probably getting towards the end, but circling back on on something that came up.

Um, we've had a couple of these cases pop up. You know, we're in a major metropolitan city, right? Atlanta's a very big city. We've got 8 million people or whatever it is. I take Uber all the time. Um, you know, and and in in a world where we've got a lot of young professionals and we've got a lot of young folks that that that, you know, go to dinners and go to go to drinks and go to all these things. It's great, right? I would love to know the data on how much the ride share and I you know Uber lift whatever you want to call it has um has reduced the number of uh alcohol related car wrecks like great fantastic >> um I think that probably something that consumer doesn't know so this will be my hey here I heard this on a podcast maybe this is something that we'll think about um you know generally you if you're having if you're going on a date with your wife right I I like to take the Uber black it's just it's a little bit more expensive It's like fancy.

It's, you know, it's it's a thing. It's smell. You got nice drivers. You know, these guys are picking the airport where they're larger cars. Um, what what we found out, we've got a couple of these cases where we've got folks are in in I'm going to use Uber as as the example here, but Uber Black, right? And you've got the option, you can pick, you know, the X or the XL or or or the the the pool, which sounds really cool, by the way. I just give ride around the city with a bunch of random folks, but whatever.

But you've got the black. And so and and we've we've got a case or a couple of cases now where an Uber black has been rearended by an uninsured or underinsured uh motorist, right? And uh we've sent our general letters of representation and our clients are like, "Hey, then no big deal. I'm in Uber." And and everybody knows that if you're in an Uber, there's a there's an Uber policy that that exists that would extend coverage should you be injured, right? Both li liability and so you're riding around an Uber, somebody else hits you, it's their fault.

No problem. You're covered. we have now uh uncovered or or figured out in in Uber's infinite wisdom um that if you hire an Uber black um meaning it's a it's a limousine um they treat these vehicles as uh professional drivers for hire >> meaning they don't extend coverage to those vehicles >> they have their own >> they have their they they these these drivers are required to carry their own coverage however in the state of Georgia there's no requirement that you carry insurance. So, the scenario is the three of us decide we're going to go watch some football.

We don't drink and drive. We call an Uber black because, you know, we like to drive in style. We get rearended. We call Uber and say, "Hey, we were rearended. You know, our necks, our backs are messed up. Um, we'd like to know what the policy of coverage is." Uber responds because this is a driver for hire. We do not extend any um coverage. So, you know, you kind of get this sense of security when you're driving around in this nicer car and you've actually got less coverage, zero coverage than you would have had if you're riding around in like a hooptie, right?

Like it's >> and they're also not required to have more than just they can have the state minimum as well. >> No. And a lot of these a lot of these cab companies they've got are and and limo and cab companies, they're carrying $25,000 liability limits only and kind of rolling the dice on whether or not it works. So, I guess my my uh my bulletin, my my my announcement to the consumer is really recognize that just because you're in a nice car and you're in a nice uh lift or an Uber or ride share service, and this goes for calling a limo, too, the guy that you'd like to take to the airport, right?

They may not have coverage. And so, it's it's even more important that if you're going to be riding around with somebody else, that you're going to protect yourself. And and again, I >> treat yourself. >> Treat yourself. Yeah. I think again, get the fuvoo insurance, man. Get the fuvoo insurance. like I go buy, understand from your agent and and and pay for the add-on. >> The biggest takeaway for me, Trey, is that the corporations are constantly working towards protecting themselves at the expense of everyday consumers.

And everyday consumers are completely oblivious to it because it's not an issue. It's not a problem >> until it becomes a problem. And that's when you learn about it, >> right? And it's usually a huge problem. >> Yeah. And that's sort of the purpose of having these kinds of conversations to put the content out there and be like, "Look, this is what exists." >> Oh, for sure. >> Well, I I mean, I think that that you're doing a huge service to the consumer and to the public, into the community, this community, local community, and and you know, and I know this is more Georgia geared, but but hopefully it reaches somebody who says, "Man, I do need to go look at my insurance.

I need to go check this out and see see what's going on." Because just like every day, you know, we we come to work and we represent these great people against these large corporations. These same corporations are the ones that are in mainstream providing this information, providing this data. And they're sure as hell not going to tell you the way that they're missing the gap. They're not going to tell you the holes in which they've created that 90% of these people end up falling in. Right. And and I think that it just goes right back to, you know, a a a bit of a disgust about the way that they do it, but also a bit of admiration.

Like, man, you guys are very smart about how you >> they're committed to what they do. >> So incredibly good at screwing over people, right? Like I mean, >> bravo, you are great at what you do. >> They make it an art form. >> They really do. Be a good neighbor, we will take from you. >> Yeah, we will. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We'll screw you over better than anybody. >> Yeah, >> boys. I could sit here and talk to you guys for hours. You know that we we do it at networking events. >> Yeah, for sure. >> Uh for the sake of data on the laptop, I'm going to wrap the this episode up.

I would love for you guys to come back. Um at the end of every podcast though, I always provide the guest today. We've got two uh anything that you think that we didn't cover, a question that you wish I would have asked, something that's in your heart, something important, a parting thought for the for the listeners. So, I would just say be honest with your lawyer and do everything you can to look out for yourself in your case. >> Yeah, I I I agree with that. I think that, you know, as lawyers, we often talk in summation as opposed to new information.

To your point, I think we could sit here and talk for days about all of the nuances and stuff that we deal with. But, you know, I think that I I hope people are listening to this and I hope that they're actively listening because I think that we covered a lot of really really good stuff today. And and I mean that I think that you're doing a really huge service to the community and I hope people are listening. >> I appreciate that >> and I hope people are taking the steps, right? Like don't let this go in one and out the other.

Like >> protect your family if that's if that's the thing that makes you like pick up the phone and call your agent or that's the thing that makes you pick up the phone and call your lawyer or you know if you're in that type situation to think about the situ the the the holistic situation. And if this is the podcast that made you like get up, you know, I would I would treat it as, hey, like I'm going to take this one step that's going to take me half a second to protect my family cuz cuz I guarantee you the clients that we've talked about the the the the gentleman that passed away unfortunately, I guarantee you he didn't leave his house that day >> knowing that he was going to pass away, you know, and and you know, we never know when when the call is going to come.

And >> I think that that you know, you need to be prepared. I think a lot of times we sit around and say, "Well, I'll deal with that tomorrow or I'll I'll handle that later. I'll get my affairs in order, you know, when it gets closer to time, you know, religious or not." Like, I think a lot of people just assume that they're going to be able to handle stuff before that day comes. And we just never know. I think that, you know, you'd be doing your family a huge disservice if you don't deal with this stuff now and understand this stuff now.

And there are plenty of people to explain it to you. >> That That's actually a great final thought. I agree with you. Do it now. Do it before you're ready. We started out with that thought. >> That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Full circle. >> Thank you guys. >> Thank you, man. Really appreciate it. >> I uh thanks everyone for tuning in for another episode. Today's episode was chalk full of information, so you may want to rewatch it. Uh I don't know how many of you will, but I know my mom will because she loves me and she watches every episode.

Mom, I love you. Thank you for watching. Everyone else, please share, comment, and subscribe. If you've got any questions, leave them in the comments. We'll respond to them. May even invite you on to talk about it. Take care, everybody.