[Music] Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of the Auto Accident Attorneys podcast brought to you by the Auto Accident Attorneys Group where our motto is simple. We take care of you. While we're known for helping people navigate the aftermath of auto accidents, this podcast is about so much more. You'll find helpful episodes on what to do after a crash, how to deal with insurance adjusters, and tips for preventing accidents in the first place. But we don't stop there. This show is about taking care of people in every way we can. That means talking about topics that impact your everyday life. From how to adopt pets from a local shelter or setting up wills, trusts, and estates. Each episode is designed to offer thoughtful, often overlooked advice to help you stay informed, empowered, and cared for. Whether you're dealing with an accident or simply trying to improve your life and your community. Speaking of community, we have with us today attorney Cassandra Cerrone of Georgia Estate and Probate. >> Almost. >> Almost nailed it. >> Georgia Estate Planning and Probate. >> Georgia Estate Planning and Probate. >> Yes. Um, I know Cassandra, but I have not yet memorized the firm name. So, I apologize, but we are really thankful to have you here today because there are a lot of issues uh, like I mentioned in the introduction that people don't think about until it's too late. And I think that you are uniquely situated to provide a wealth of information to our listeners and also review with me a couple of specific issues where there's crossover between auto accident cases and probate. >> Mhm. >> But before we do a deep dive into that, Cassandra, if you wouldn't mind, please introduce yourself to our listeners. >> Yes. So, my name is Cassandra Cerrone. I am a founding partner of Georgia Estate Planning and Probate. Um I am the probate part of Georgia estate planning and probate. So I do kind of anything in the probate court. Um deceased estates, minor estates, incapacitated estates, you know, in every aspect in between. My partner Kim Hopkcomer does estate planning. So wills, trusts, um powers of attorney, all those sorts of things. >> I want to start at a basic 101 level. >> Okay. >> What is probate? >> So probate is lots of things. So, the probate court is the court where um they deal primarily with deceased estates. So, when somebody's passed away and you need someone to be appointed over that estate, you go to the probate court. Um they also do things like issue marriage certificates. They issue gun permits. They help when you have a minor that has received money. They will establish a conservatorship. Um they also have a mental health aspect of it. So, if someone's having a mental health breakdown, you go to the probate court for help with that. Um, or you know, if you have someone that's an incapacitated adult, they do guardianships and conservatorships of adults. So, they do lots of different things in the probate court. >> Is it safe to say that probate is a way of the state entering into a person's life? >> Yeah. Uh, it's a way of really the court appointing someone to be in charge of that. So whether it's somebody's passed away and now we've got this estate that has to be dealt with or a minor needs somebody in charge of them or an incapacitated adult, that's that's really their way of appointing someone to be in charge of it. >> That leads me to some specific things that we deal with on our end. Uh when we have some catastrophic auto accidents, we are dealing with a deedent, somebody that who has passed away from the accident. So the family comes to us >> and there's two scenarios. One, we have to litigate that case. We have to go to court. And then there's another scenario where there's no need for litigation and there's an an immediate settlement that's paid out. >> Each one has its own >> hurdles >> to overcome. Let's start with the case where somebody has passed and there is a uh following lawsuit. So we have to actually litigate it >> and it's always you know >> Smith v Jones or whatever. >> In this case the plaintiff Smith has passed away. So we cannot use that Smith as the plaintiff. We have to create an entity and that's where >> you come in. Yes. >> Can you can you discuss that portion of it? >> Yeah. So often times when we're working with injury attorneys, we need to set up this administrator or personal representative, I should say. That's kind of the more general term. So the personal representative is someone who's appointed over a deceased estate. Now whether it's an executive or an administrator depends on whether that person had a will. So if they have a will, then they've likely nominated somebody. The nominated person is the executive. We go to the court. We say, "Hey, here are the heirs at law of this deceased person. here is their last will and testament. Please appoint this this nominated person as executive. That process is very simple. Uh provided all of the heirs agree and there's no will contest or anything like that. But then we get the executive appointed. Now you can add you know Jane Smith as administrator of the estate and that's now your plaintiff. If they did not have a will um then we're going the route of an administrator which is where somebody is appointed over a deceased estate where there is no will. So it's the same notice requirement. We notify the heirs but now we have to figure out who the administrator is going to be. The most common way that we do that is it's someone who's selected by all of the heirs who are able to consent. Right? So it's you know let's say it's a married couple with two children. Everybody agrees that mom's going to be the administrator. gets more complicated when it's a second marriage and you've got adult children from a prior relationship or we have minor children. Then it gets a little bit harder um and there's kind of more requirements. Now mom has to post a bond in order to be appointed. So it's a a bond is an insurance policy that says that she's going to do the right thing and that she's not going to steal this money from the estate. She has to file an inventory with the court that tells the court here are all of the assets of the estate. Then she's got to file annual returns. This is the money that came in. This is the money that went out. Often times in an auto accident case, there may not be any assets in the estate. We might just be doing this in order to have an administrator appointed to either litigate or settle this case, but all these requirements still have to be satisfied with the court. And so it makes it a lot more costly on the back end because we have all these filing requirements with the court. when those situations where it is a second marriage or maybe there it's a large family and there's just a lot of internal conflict. >> How valid are the concerns of the family members that don't want a particular administrator to be appointed? >> It depends on who the person is that they don't want to be appointed. Um the code gives preference to certain people. So, if there's a surviving spouse, um, unless you can show that they stole money, they're going to be appointed. If they just don't like their stepmother, then it's kind of too tough. >> If the person that doesn't want that administrator appointed >> from their perspective, they're like, "Well, they're going to they're going to cut me out or somehow I'm going to lose." How valid is that concern? >> It's really not. Particularly whenever you have a bond requirement, inventory, and annual returns. When somebody passes away without a will, the code tells us how we have to um distribute anything that's received into the estate. So the spouse gets whatever an equal amount is but not less than one/ird and then the children or descendants of of predesceased children get the remaining equal share. So if there's two kids, everybody gets a third. Um if there's three, the spouse gets a third. the other the children get you know whatever the equal amount of the twothirds is >> regardless of whatever conflict like this sister says that sister shouldn't get anything it doesn't matter >> it doesn't matter unless there's a will right so that's how the deceased can make that decision and and make that unequal distribution is through a will but absent a will that it's dictated by the code and that and they tell us how we have to distribute the assets >> and I have a uh a selfish personal question Yeah. Thinking about on the litigation side, on average, let's say I'm thinking about an auto accident that comes in the door >> right before the statute of limitations is about to run. >> Let's say it's the day before and the family has finally come together and decided to follow suit. >> You're stressing me out. Yep. >> If we follow suit in the name of the estate, >> will the court how fast can you get your side completed? and will the court accept that in terms of preserving the statute? >> Worst case scenario, and of course this has happened before, somebody comes to me and you know, we've got all these issues. If I'm trying to get someone appointed quickly, I'm going to have to post a bond. So, that's going to be kind of the number one is can my client get bonded? Can this proposed administrator get bonded? You have to have good credit, right? Um or decent credit, I should say. >> The administrator that's being appointed, so they'll run a credit check, >> correct? The insurance company will. Yep. Okay. because this is a fiduciary role, right? And you're promising to take care of someone else's money and so they want to make sure that you don't owe a bunch of people money basically. >> So if they can get bonded, I can do if everybody will sign off on it, I can do permanent administration pretty quickly or I can do temporary administration. So sometimes in order to preserve a statute or to preserve standing, we'll file for temporary administration. A temporary administrator has like almost no authority. they have only the authority given to them by the court. Um, and so we'll go in and say, "Hey, we need to file this lawsuit. Permanent administr administration is coming, but it's going to take a little bit longer. So, we need a temp administrator." Now, there's no notice requirements. That's kind of how you get out of that. But, you've got to post a bond. So, I've got to have somebody that's got good credit that I can get a bond within 24 hours for them. >> And the cost of that bond, >> who where does that money come from? Who pays for that? you >> the plaintiff's attorney. >> Yes. >> Uh so the the family. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> So it will ultimately come out of the settlement, but typically those expenses are considered litigation expenses. >> Okay. >> Because they're necessary in order to preserve the position >> and that's a bond on every single administrator that is appointed >> if it's not waved. Yes. And so the the waiver comes from the family agreement from the family. >> Yep. Yeah. >> And so it's not a it's not necess ne necessarily a minimum dollar amount. Then >> most courts set a minimum now. They used to not if there was nothing in the estate or it was just real property. They used to not set a minimum, but starting this year they've started doing that. So it's usually about $10,000. Um which that premium is, you know, a h 100red bucks a year. It's not significant. Um, and then you have to report to the court if and when additional money is received into the estate. >> That's super informative. I hope you guys are enjoying this as much as I am. >> It's riveting to me. >> I get very excited. >> All right, so let's let's try the uh the other uh theoretical where >> we don't need litigation. >> Yep. >> Um it's the damages were far in excess of how much insurance money was available. So the insurance company's going to turn the money over immediately. uh but the person who is supposed to receive the money has has passed. So it's their let's say it's the spouse situation, spouse and several children. What needs to be set up in order for that those settlement funds to legally be transferred to a party that has a right to take it? >> That's kind of a I have a question to your question. >> Okay. >> Okay. Did the accident result in their death? So, we're looking at a potential kind of wrongful death estate split or was this an accident that occurred, you know, 6 months ago and then he just had a heart attack and died and so now that's payable to the estate. >> That's great. So, now we have two separate conversations to have. Let's start. >> Okay. >> Let's start with a situation where the accident was the cause of death. So, it's a wrongful death settlement. So, typically we still are going to set up an estate, but there's likely not going to be a whole lot of money that goes to the estate, right? Because anything that's paid to the estate is subject to creditor claims and wrongful death is paid directly to the spouse. So, there's so many things I'm just going to go off on a hundred tangents. >> I'm I'm loving all of it. Bring it all up. >> Okay. So the wrongful death statute says that if there's a spouse and or children, they have the ability to to bring the claim or parents, right? Parents can bring a claim. If there's no spouse, no children, no parents, the siblings hold it through the estate, right? So if if you're bringing a wrongful death action on behalf of siblings, that gets paid to the estate. M >> if it's a spouse and or children or parents that gets paid directly to them outside of the estate not subject to creditor claims because they hold that cause of action individually. So in that instance we're really looking to just set up an estate to have an administrator appointed who can sign a release because the insurance company is going to require that you know if there was any pain and suffering that wants to be paid to the estate. So the purpose of the estate in that situation is literally just to have the authority to sign the release so that the settlement can be uh transferred essentially. >> Yeah. But you still have all the same statutory requirements, right? So, you still have to do the petition either to probate will or for letters of administration, get your administrator appointed. You have to file the notice to debtors and creditors, let it run, and then leave the estate open for at least 6 months and then close it, you know, whenever you're done with everything and everything's wrapped up. >> So, even in the situation where the the funds are going to go go to the heirs because they hold the cause of action, >> notice still has to be given to creditors. they can make a claim but then >> there's no money right so that's what we say to the creditors I have your claim thank you so much but I don't have any money to give you and then they go away >> that is very bureaucratic yes it is >> okay so I'm I'm getting more and more excited now let's talk about the situation where uh an auto accident occurs they've gone through therapy >> in in the middle of settling the claim. They pass for an unrelated cause. >> So now that cause of action is held by the estate, not by the survivors because it's not a wrongful death action, right? So that's going to be paid to the estate. So now we've got to get an administrator appointed who can settle the the claim, but then they're going to have to set up an estate bank account, run the notice and creditors again. But now if we have creditors, we have to deal with them >> because we have money coming into the estate. I can't say that's a tip because you can't really help when you're going to pass. But I guess this would be better suited for the uh attorneys that are listening as opposed to >> That's fair. That's fair. >> Okay. What about I'm trying to come up with different scenarios that we're faced with where I have to call you. >> I have lots of them. Yeah. >> Let's go to minors. Mhm. >> Let's say I have um a 15-year-old uh boy that was involved in an accident in his friend's vehicle and he's going to receive >> what is it 25,000. >> Let's call it $26,000. >> Terrible. Terrible. I hate it. I talk about the code a lot. So, the code says that anything over 25,000 has to be approved. Um, so that's going to depend on are you in litigation or are you not in litigation? Kind of where we're going to go. So if you're in litigation, you're going to go to the trial court and ask for approval. That makes sense because the trial court is going to have the best understanding of what's going on in the case. You know, the efforts that have been undertaken, kind of how you got here. >> If you're pursuit, then we've got to go to the probate court and get it approved. And so the probate court says essentially, you know, where did this money come from? Who's paying it? And then what's going to happen to it? So what are your fees? What are the expenses of litigation? Where is the money going to go ultimately? Parents, so legal guardians, no natural guardians can hold funds up to $25,000 on behalf of their child. There's some discourse between personal injury attorneys and probate attorneys about how that needs to be held. I believe it needs to be held in a custodial account, which is an account on behalf of a minor. The code doesn't require that, but my recommendation is that it be held in a custodial account. If it's over 25,000, then we have to do something else with it, right? So, if the net proceeds are over 25,000, we can't just give it to mom and dad. So, we have three options really. and and it could be any combination of these three options. So, the first option is we could put it in a structured settlement, an annuity. Um there are insurance companies that do this. You probably know some of them or there's really like one that everybody knows, but they put together an annuity. They take the money and they say, "We're going to invest this. You have a guaranteed rate of return and then we're going to make distributions after the kid turns 18. Maybe it's monthly. Maybe it's yearly over the next, you know, four to six years." really the court wants to see the money into the kid's name by like 22 23 depending on the amount. >> So that's number one. Number two, we can do a conservatorship. So a conservatorship is when the probate court appoints someone to be in charge of assets. So here it would be to be in charge of a minor's assets. There's a lot of filing requirements. We have a bond requirement again. So the kid gets the money and then mom or dad or family member is going to report to the court. here's where the money is. Here's what I'd like to spend it on. Can I have permission to do that? And to be clear, the court, if it is money that the child received as a result of their own injury, the court is very unlikely to allow you to spend any money unless it is related to that injury. So, if you've got ongoing medical treatment, uh mental health therapy, something like that, surgeries, that type of thing, yes. anything else, you need to put the money into a safe investment and leave it for the child because that was as a result of their injury. Um, and then the third option is a an inst what we call an institutional trust, which is a trust that has a corporate fiduciary. And that we really look at those when you've got, you know, half a million to a million plus >> because then it makes more sense to do something like an institutional trust with the expenses that are involved in it. So, we put all of this together. We present it to the court. We say, "Here was how the child was injured. Here's what we'd like to do with the money. Is that okay?" And then the court asks whatever questions they have. And then they say, "Sounds good." And then we get our order and then you can consummate the settlement. >> So, this is a petition for minors compromise, >> right? Is that what it's called? >> It's called a petition to compromise doubtful claim of a minor. >> Petition to compromise a doubtful claim of a minor. That's a mouthful. >> It is. the in the role of the probate court in reviewing this petition. >> Are they making judgment calls? >> Yes. >> Oh, okay. >> You don't even have to complete that sentence. Yes, they are making judgment calls. They're making judgment calls on the amount of money that was received. They're making judgment calls on the amount of attorneys fees. They're making judgment calls on the litigation expenses. Um, yes, they are asking questions and they want to know what happened and and how did we get here? >> I'm going from host to listener because now I'm curious. Have you ever been involved in a situation where you had to submit a petition where the court looked at the settlement figures and was like, "No way." >> And they had to go back. >> No. Uh, I have had courts question, but I'm pretty astute and I know pretty well what questions they're going to ask. So, I'll give an example. So, I had this is was she a minor? I'm not I can't recall. She may have been an adult ward, but it was someone who was incapacitated. You know, she might have been a minor. I think she may have been an adult. I'm not exactly sure, but we were doing I think it's a title n action. So essentially, she was assaulted at school and so they sued the school. They received money. Um the money really wasn't enough to compensate her for what she was entitled to, but there's um immunity issues, you know, that kind of thing. And the attorney's fees were 45%. Which is significant, right? I mean, most attorneys kind of stop at 40%. But this is a really specialized area of the law. The litigation expenses were high because they had to engage me. They had to get, you know, specialists. There was therapy, there was this, there was that. And so it ended up, you know, what the courts want to see is that at least, I would say 60% of the money is going to end up with the minor. And in this case, it was maybe 50%, maybe a little bit less than 50%. And I there was a court-appointed attorney and a guardian edum on the other side. And the judge was like, "Listen, I don't like these percentages. I don't like the way that this looks. Why are the expenses so high? Why are the fees so high? And I just said, listen, this is a really specialized area of the law. This has been litigated for three and a half years. She went, Mom went to like six or seven other attorneys. Nobody would take this case. >> And so this is kind of unfortunately if you want to pursue this type of case, these are the types of fees that you're going to see. Um, and luckily I had good people on the other side who were like, "Yeah, we don't have any issues with this because we investigated, we talked to the injury attorneys, we know the amount of work that was put into this, and so we have no objection to it." Um, but I mean, I have had judges question I've had guardian adem, you know, it's typically either attorney's fees or litigation expenses because they want to see kind of this magic percentage at the end of the day >> and that's usually in excess of 50%. It's absolutely in excess of 50% that's going to the minor, >> right? >> Or or the incapacitated adult. They want to see I would say closer to 60% >> of the gross settlement >> of the gross settlement. Yeah. >> I I just got really curious to see what that looks like if they were ever like this settlement isn't going to pass muster. Well, so the one thing that I will say, and I've just started telling attorneys this off the bat, is often times when a personal injury attorney engages me, they say, "Okay, I need you to do this petition of compromised doubtful claim." And I say, "Great." And they say, "How much is that going to cost?" And I say, "It's going to cost X number of dollars depending on the circumstances." And they say, "Okay, cool. I want to make that an expense of litigation." And I say, "No, that that judges will disallow, right? If they see expenses of litigation are, you know, $5,000 and then they ask, "What is this?" And I say, "Well, 2500 of that is my fee." Absolutely not. They want that to come out of the attorney's fee because their expectation is that if you took on a minor case that involved a minor, you knew or should have known going in that you would have to prepare and present this petition to compromised alpha claim. And if you are not capable is not the right word, but if you are not >> large, if you can't do that, right, >> that's fine. Hire somebody else. You pay that expense. >> Very reasonable. >> So that's the one thing that I have had judges, but I tell people off the bat that that's and they say, "I still want to present it that way." I say, "Okay, that's fine. I'll present it that way, but I'm not fighting." >> So there are there are firms that will still >> Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> Okay. I mean, they don't get it, but because then the judge says, "I'm not allowing that." And I say, "Okay, no problem." >> I mean, even from the client's perspective, it makes sense. They're like, "Well, I engaged a law firm to provide legal services." >> Yep. >> So, if anything, that law firm should have had somebody in house, >> for example, to be able to provide those services. >> And, you know, I tell people my job is not hard. I don't think what I do is hard. It's nuanced. Um, but people do probate stuff that are not lawyers all the time. I mean, lots of people probate someone's estate and they never hire a lawyer. You don't have to hire a lawyer. All the forms are available for free online. Um, I'm not gatekeeping any of that, but it is nuanced and so I know kind of what to expect and what judges are looking for. But you can do it. I believe in you. I believe in everyone. I I think everyone can do probate. Well, I've actually had a podcast with another attorney that that's in our building, uh, Richishi Patney, and we've talked about how we specifically will not do work, not just probate, but if it's outside of our wheelhouse, >> it's it reminds me of that uh there's like an anecdote or a story about this guy. The this factory gets shut down and they call this guy in and he walks down the factory line. and he's looking at all the machinery and he goes to a a screw that's loose and he tightens that screw >> and then he submits an invoice. Have you heard this? >> Mhm. >> For like $1,000, let's say. >> And the he gets push back and they're like, "Well, you only you're only here for 10 minutes." >> He's like, "Yeah, well, you know, the I charged a dollar for turning the screw, but n $999 for knowing which screw to turn." >> Correct. >> And that's how I feel about you were saying it's nuanced. That's how I feel about all legal work. >> So, not just for attorneys hiring >> probate attorneys, but uh the public at large. >> Yeah. >> Hire someone that knows what they're Don't hire just anyone, >> but hire someone that know. If you're going to hire just anyone, maybe try and do it yourself, >> but if if you find specialists, rely on their experience because a lot of it might even come from not about that particular thing, but they you have done a particular thing. so many times that you know the the ancillary issues that come up with it that have nothing to do with >> Yeah. >> you know what's in the box. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Absolutely. >> Okay man. Let's see what what other questions I have with the miners compromise. Let's go down this path. Okay. >> Uh I I like to give what I've said before is dad advice. Mostly it involves insurance. >> Mhm. If if you're going to give some advice as to issues that people don't really consider about their lives, whether it's day-to-day or something for their lifetime, we're talking about, you know, >> deedants. >> Mhm. >> What is something that you would procilitize about? I'm I'm always talking about the importance of uninsured motors protection. People don't think about it. Is there something similar on your end that you think people should consider that they typically don't? >> Often times when people come to our firm to do estate planning, they're really hyper concerned about doing a will, right? Or doing a will in a trust. Um, and again, that's my partner's kind of side of the practice, but because of what I do, I see lots of things. Um, powers of attorney are so important. So when we do an estate planning package, we are going to do a will and maybe trusts, but we're also going to do a financial power of attorney and a healthcare power of attorney or healthcare directive. Um I have had several instances where I have had to do emergency conservatorships because someone has had a tragic accident. they had a stroke or they've been in an accident of some sort. And there is no one that has power of attorney to make sure that the mortgage gets paid and make sure the utilities stay on >> and to litigate a claim because maybe there's a claim that needs to be litigated and to talk to the insurance company to make sure that the insurance stays current. And having powers of attorney that are valid and are, you know, effective can really make a huge difference um for your family. So from a practical matter, I think that's that's really smart and I I definitely see it on my end. There's at least a dozen cases we're dealing with right now where we're having difficult times even getting uh a HIPPA >> executed to get medical records. From a practical standpoint, one, people don't like to think about their own mortality. >> True. >> Or that something's going to happen to them. Two, they might be afraid of some sort of fraud or something uh taking place. You know, you give up power. Or maybe if it's not even fraud. I think about my own father. >> Yeah. >> Um he's he's the patriarch of the family. I think for him to have power of attorney he there was pro we haven't had this conversation but I assume that there's some sort of loss of feeling of control. >> Is there well talk me through that. How do you deal with people on that end? >> You know in lots of different ways. I mean I experienced this with my own father. He got sick last year. He came in did his estate planning. I mean, I had put it in front of him for six years and then finally when he received a terrible diagnosis, he came in and signed everything. Um, but then he found in his illness that he really needed help, right? And that my mom and I were both there to help him. Um, and so that lack of control really didn't affect him as much at that time. Um, I do see other people that they're very prideful. They're very private. And I think that's very much our parents' generation. is they're very private about finances. You, you know, don't ask questions. That's not an appropriate conversation. Um, you know, there are safeguards in place in powers of attorney and at least the ones that we draft. You can make it effective now or you can make it effective only upon incapacity where you've got to have, you know, one or two physician statements that say, "Hey, this person's incapacitated." Even if it's temporarily, you know, maybe they're in a coma, they're in the hospital, they just need some help. Um, so that's kind of a safeguard that can protect a lot of people. Um, but really I just tell them the unfortunate horror stories that I have experienced. You know, I had somebody call me a couple of years ago. Her mom had had a massive stroke. She had no documents in order. Dad was spiraling and really couldn't handle anything and everything was joint. And so we had to do not one but two emergency guardianship and conservatorships because the emergency guardianship and conservatorship only lasts for 60 days. We thought she was going to get better. She didn't. And then we had to file another emer which is stressful for me and for everybody because it has to happen in a certain period of time. So expensive and just kind of a a mess, right? And then when we went to file for permanent, she unfortunately passed away. Um, but that's what you're saving your family from when you sign these documents is you're saving them from having to deal with the chaos of trying to go to the probate court, go to a hearing, get all these documents in order while they're also trying to care for you and be in the hospital with you and get you moved to assisted living and do all of these things. they don't need the extra stress of this probate case going on. >> I hate to I didn't prepare you for this and I hate to put you on the spot, but I I feel like if I was listening to this episode and it's like, "Oh, this makes a lot of sense. I want to get a power of attorney." One of the things that might go through my mind is, "Oh, I don't know if I can afford a power of attorney." Is there a range? Is there a percentage? >> Of course. So, I'm going to say two things. And I'm one of the worst people to ask these questions cuz I'll talk myself out of a job immediately. Um, in Georgia, powers of attorney and healthcare directives, they're statutory. They're statutory. You can pull them off the internet. You can find them uh at Atlanta Legal Aid. Most people don't go into the code section. You can pull you can pull it from the code. It's literally written into the code what they want to see. Um, or if you want some guidance through it, you need a notary because it requires witnesses and notaries, you can come to our office. I mean, typically for estate planning, just for powers of attorney, it's probably $500 because you've got at least an hour of an attorney's time plus some processing. >> If we're looking at an estate planning package, it probably starts at 2500, you know, to get a will, powers of attorney for a married couple. we'll talk through whether we need trusts or anything like that and then it kind of goes up from there. >> So for a couple thousand dollar which I'm not trying to minimize but if you think of it in the grand scheme of life and all of your assets. >> Yeah. And let me tell you the family that I had to do two emergency conservatorships that was probably pushing $20,000 >> 10x not doing it ahead of time. That's the sales pitch. >> Yeah. Not that we're trying to sell anything, but you know, when I I want to get people to be proactive and to make moves and make changes in their lives >> and protect themselves. And if you think about it, don't don't wait till it's too late. It's it's literally a 10x difference. >> Yeah. >> In cost. What are the logistics of like the power of attorney when cuz in my mind I'm like, "Oh, I've got a power of attorney." Like I run into the bank. I got a power of attorney. >> Um I'll just, you know, use my dad as an example. You know, I called the bank. guy said, I mean, he had a relationship with them, so it was a little bit easier, but called the bank, said, "Hey, I'm power of attorney. I need to be added to this account." Um, powers of attorney, you don't have to have the original. So, just a little side note, cuz we like to go off on tangents. You have to have an original will. You have to file the original will. >> But powers of attorney, copies suffice. So, you just walk into the bank, say, "Hey, I have this power of attorney. I need to be added to the account." >> The bank's going to say, "Okay, great." They're going to take it, send it off to legal. Um, just a little side note that the people that work in legal at banks do not know anything about estate planning or probate. So, they're always going to make things way harder than they have to be, but that's okay. We work with them. And so, they send it off to legal. Legal says, "Okay, sounds good." Or, "We have additional questions. We need additional documentation." And then they'll eventually add the power of attorney to the bank account as power of attorney. So, it'll say, you know, Cassandra Cerrone as power of attorney for Scott Emery, that's my dad, for Scott Emery. Um, and then I can write checks. I can transact on behalf of the account as power of attorney. When he passes or when he passed, then that no long I can no longer transact on that account. Right? So, power powers of attorney die when the individual dies. Mhm. >> So now we've got Scott Emry's account and I have to go through the probate process or maybe he has, you know, a joint account holder or maybe he has a to pod designation, transfer on death, payable on death designation, but I can't do anything with that account now that he's passed away. >> So the power of attorney is uh it's a a legal tool while the person is alive but incapacitated. >> Correct. >> I guess or or I guess it's their >> it is up to them. Yeah. if they don't want it to be upon capacity, if they want it to be now, that's fine, too. >> That was an awesome conversation. I personally learned a lot. Cassandra, you're a first time guest, so you don't know this, but I always talk to my mom on my podcast because she's definitely maybe my only listener, >> okay? >> But definitely my most devout listener. So, mom, I think that uh you probably got a lot of information. You don't know this, but my mom is actually one of your clients. Know that. >> You do know that. Okay. I like to wrap up every episode with giving guests an opportunity to uh if there is something that they felt like they didn't get a chance to say or if they if you feel like there's something important that you want to to share with the listeners, I I give you the closing. If someone is probating an estate of a loved one of either, you know, it's the spouse or the minor children, they need to look into your support because there's only a certain period of time that they have to claim that. So, if you have an estate that has money in it and you've got creditors and you're dealing with creditor claims, if you have a spouse and or minor children, they need to talk to a probate attorney about doing your support because that can make a huge difference. And you're saying year support as in a singular year of support. >> That's what it's called. >> Okay. >> But that doesn't mean that that's all you get. >> Okay. >> So, what the code says, you know, my favorite phrase is that if no one objects to the petition, however much money you've asked for, you get it. So, let's say you've asked for $500,000, none of the creditors file an objection, you get $500,000. That is a golden piece of advice. >> It is a phenomenal tool that we have in the state of Georgia, but you only have two years. So, it's time barred. >> Two years from >> the date of death. >> Date of death. Okay. >> So, two years from the date of death to petition for your support in order to avoid creditors. >> Amazing. Cassandra, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate you coming here. Uh, thank you for being our counsel. You guys are fantastic. I couldn't recommend you highly enough. Yeah. >> Uh listeners, I hope that you I know you got really valuable information. Uh please share this episode so that others can get this data. Uh if if there's clips on social media, share those. Like, comment, and subscribe. And we'll see you soon. Take care.