Title: Is Your Injury Worse Than You Think? | Orthopedic Advice for Accident Victims
Downloaded: 2026-04-10 15:02:17

[Music] Welcome to the Auto Accident Attorneys podcast brought to you by the Auto Accident Attorneys Group where our motto is simple. We take care of you. While we're known for helping people navigate the aftermath of auto accidents, this podcast is about so much more. You'll find helpful episodes on what to do after a crash, how to deal with insurance adjusters, and tips for preventing accidents in the first place, even. But that's not where we stop. This show is about taking care of people in every way we can.

That means talking about topics that impact your everyday life, from how to prune your trees to how to pick a right amount of life insurance. Each episode is designed to offer thoughtful, often overlooked advice to help you stay informed, empowered, and cared for. Whether you're dealing with an accident or simply trying to improve your life or your community, because at the end of the day, taking care of you isn't just something we say, it's what we do. And in keeping on theme of taking care of you, today I have a very very special guest who's near and dear to my heart because we are childhood friends.

Mr. Surouch Gchin, welcome. >> Thank you, sir. Appreciate you. >> I love the hat. Surouch Rou Gchin. That's right. That's that's how I've grown to to refer to him. has spent 17 years in orthopedic sports medicine in both the clinical side and medical device sales side. >> That's right. >> And the reason that Roo is on is not just because he's one of my dogs. >> Come on now. Come on. Go dogs. But also because orthopedic uh injuries are something that we see a lot of in uh auto accident cases or injuries that require orthopedic care rather.

and Roo is uniquely positioned to talk about those injuries and also the the auto accident cases themselves in a very unique way. Uh before we jump into this conversation and and catch up also cuz I haven't seen you in a minute, >> right? >> You give me an introduction and and tell us about Roo and how you got into this. You know, I think the easiest way to to spark it is that I, you know, you and I, as long as we've grown up, we played basketball, we played football, we played sports, and I went through a myriad of knee injuries in high school, uh, specifically junior year, senior year, freshman of college, sophomore year.

So, I had consecutive knee surgeries, six total on my left knee. Good lord. I know, right? And so um as I started to go through physical therapy as I started to be in these orthopedic practices, I found this uh this passion, this love for the human body and injuries and kinematics and you know the sports medicine side of things and we love sports. We still the dogs coming up football here. So it just was a natural sort of progression for me. Um, and honestly I was a business major and I completely switched >> uh to a sports exercise science and kinesiology major.

And then when I finished that uh unfortunately when I was in Georgia, I had my my sixth knee surgery was pretty big at the time back in 2006 and there was only one doctor in the state that really did it. And so I had to move back to Atlanta. So, graduated from Georgia State with an exercise science and kinesi kinesiology, went premed because I was like, I'm gonna go to try and go be a doctor. That didn't work out the way that I thought it would because of the way that health insurance and the health care system in general has progressed.

I was sort of navigated by a lot of my mentors, surgeons, orthop orthopods to be like, rouch, if we had a son your age at at >> 24, which yeah, at the time I was 24 in clinic working in a orthopedic clinic, they directed me towards sales. M >> so from 2008 to 2010 2010 2011 I was a medical assistant uh executive you know assistant practice assistant to a couple doctors orthopedic practice they helped me navigate and transition to the orthopedic sales world which I'm still in presently and uh essentially what that means is I provide orthopedic implants solutions techniques and help continue education and innovation to orthopedic surgeons and practices to continue to help patients as technology increases.

So the way we do ACLs now is not the way that I had my ACL done 15 years ago. Much more minimally invasive. Surgeons are great and they're all know how they're doing it, but they, you know, they need to also be trained and educated on new techniques just like an iPhone, right? I I bring up the Apple analogy all the time. Everybody on this planet for the most part can figure out how to use a smartphone, but when Apple continuously comes out with a 16 and a 17 and this new stuff and AI, well, yeah, I can get to my email, but I don't know all the things that I could possibly know about the Apple.

Right. >> Right. So, how do I educate myself to continue to not be a lagard in technology? It's not dissimilar in surgery, >> right? Now, that's not to say that the things that people did 10, 12, 13, 14 years ago didn't work. >> We're just getting better at it. >> We're just getting better at it, which is why we're here to begin with. How do you continue to get better? How do you progress? Um, and if you can tell in the passion of my voice, that's why I love what I do. Um, and why I'm so passionate about it because it's not monotonous.

There's always something to learn. Uh, the way that we did shoulder surgery five years ago is not the way we do it now. Uh, the way that people are getting uh, their bones fixed uh, on a fracture if they do get a car accident, right? There's different techniques now that can help patients get back quicker or get better healing uh scaffolds, better biologic scaffolds so people can get back to what they need to get to do um in a in a more efficient time frame. So, kind of a long-winded answer, but that is that is kind of why I do what I do and uh and I love it.

It's exciting. >> Go dogs. >> Go dogs. Come on. By the way, for our listeners, uh, >> that's gonna happen a lot that way. >> Every every time you have a statement, I'm just going to throw in a go dogs. >> Yeah, >> we might call the dogs. I am not opposed. I've called the dogs in a lot of places. >> You know, there was one time I I happened to be at uh it was a Taco Mac. I was at Taco Mac randomly by myself on a Saturday and I was watching one of the Georgia games and I got excited after a touchdown. So, I called the I'm like I was in North Georgia somewhere.

I don't remember where it was. I called the dogs. Nobody Nobody not a single person repeated what I said. I finished the chant just cuz I felt silly. But I immediately asked for my tab and I walked out of there. >> Hopefully that Taco Mac is not even open anymore. That Taco Mac should be closed by definition. If you're in North Georgia >> and they're not calling dogs >> and they're not calling the dogs or nobody is barking with you, that place that place needs to be shut down. >> I'm going to go back. I have to I'm sure I got a photo or something and I can find out where it was.

I'm going to go back. >> We should go back to that. Like what are the games like maybe that we're not going to be in Athens or whatever? We should go back to that one. Just a bunch of people and we'll all just call the dogs. >> Done this season. We're we're doing it. Go dogs. >> All right. A lot of our clients will get injured in an auto accident. Um shoulder and knee a lot of shoulder they will delay their treatment. Forget the surgery but even treatment they try to live with it. You have gone through the surgery and you've been in in the surgical center.

So you've seen it as patient, you've seen it as pro provider technically. >> Sure. uh let's let's have a conversation about from what you've seen and your experience how you can guide somebody that's going through that kind of decision-m process. >> And I will tell you full disclosure, I'm not a medical doctor. This is just my opinion, my professional opinion on this, not just from my own personal experiences, but professional experiences. Mhm. >> And I can confidently say that if you are an individual who feels like they have hurt themselves, do not wait.

I cannot stress the importance of and you may be able to tough it out, but to your point and give a scenario, you know, you get in a car accident, you bang your shoulder, you get in a fender bender, you get rear ended and you bang your shoulder and you've got this pain and you're like, "Oh, it's okay. I can kind of move it." Or, you know, it's not bad. But 6 weeks goes by, 8 weeks goes by, and it's not getting better. Well, let's just say you tore your rotator cuff time zero in that exact moment. 8 and 1/2 weeks, 9 weeks has gone by.

The body is a unique thing that it's going to do what it can to protect itself. All that does, and we have some great surgeons and some great orthopods and great doctors in this state, all that does is make their life more difficult and frankly can decrease the success rate of the procedure. Not for any other reason other than it just makes the anatomy more challenging. You get scar tissue, your tendon may not be as mobile. And when I say tendon, guys, it's what attaches the muscle to your bone, which is anybody says, "Oh, I tore my rotator cuff." Or, you know, if depending on where you're at in Georgia, they'll say, "Well, doc, I tore my rotary cup." You know, like it just depends, right?

I'm not saying, you know, have munch and syndrome and be like, "Oh, I need to go to the doctor every time." But if you're in a traumatic incident, you need to go get checked. If not for anything to know that, hey, you might have that cuff tear. Mhm. >> And the longer you wait, the more challenging it could be potentially to get you back to 100%. >> Surgery is is even though the technology and it's minimally invasive now and and you know, we've got a myriad of of wonderful techniques and things that have really changed the game, it's still surgery, >> right?

>> And I think people need to recognize that. And it is scary. And look, I've had I mean I tore my pec uh you know October last year and I got immediately like two days later I was call I called my doc buddy. I was in San Francisco actually and I was like I need to see you immediately because I know what it's like if you wait six weeks for your pec. It turns an hour surgery into a two and a half hour surgery. >> Right? >> So do yourself a favor. do your health care provider a favor and get there quickly.

>> I'm glad you mentioned that. I think that's something that's really uh thoughtprovoking is like I'm going to try and tough it out, but what's going on with the actual organic material inside of you is going to make it so much more difficult for the surgeon. >> 100% 100% man. Our bodies are naturally made to protect itself, >> right? It's why we store fat so easily. >> Mhm. >> Right. We store fat easier because if god forbid we didn't have food to eat or needed in to survive the cold, we want to maintain body weight.

>> Right. >> Right. So your body is a na it's a genius work. I mean if and again you my ner my science nerd will come out here is is it's going to protect itself. So what is that going to do? the other areas, let's say the other areas of your shoulder, since we're talking about the shoulder, are going to overcompensate for that one part of the the chain >> of the link in the chain, excuse me, that is weak or faulty. >> Mhm. >> So, all you know, you potentially may get a biceps issue, as an example, if your cuff is not working.

You may potentially get some bony issues if you don't address that stuff. And again, this is not a I'm not a medical doctor. These are just things that I have seen with my own eyes over, you know, 14 years of being in the operating room and then even prior to that being in clinic and seeing patients come in and then being like, "Oh, yeah. Well, you know, I actually hurt my shoulder. You know, I fell off a ladder or, you know, four months ago and I didn't think anything of it." >> Well, then you get imaging and all of a sudden it's like, uh, man, I wish you would have came in four months ago.

>> Yeah, >> we can still address the problem. We can still help you, but inherently there's a less chance of awesome success to getting you back to where you were normally. Not saying that's not possible, >> right? >> But it is it is going to make it a little bit more challenging. >> Yeah. So to kind of tie it all together 100% if if you feel especially if you're in a car accident if you're in a car accident cover your you know your COA dot your eyes cross your tees like get with who you need to get with call your insurance call your attorney you know and then go get a checkup if for anything to make sure you're okay.

You may not even know that something has happened and it may show up four weeks ago. >> Right. Go dogs. >> Come on. I know what you're getting at. You may I don't know if it was inadvertent or if if you already know. Our job is to present our clients story. I I just look at us as glorified storytellers really. Uh you know, we're not surgeons performing surgery to make them feel better. We're just telling their story so that entity that's responsible for paying for those damages understands how much liability exposure they have.

the longer the the more delay between those diagnosed injuries after the accident, the more opportunity for the defense council to argue the possibility of an intervening event causing that injury. So, one of the most important reasons that we want clients to get in front of a physician or at least get some diagnostic imaging completed as soon as possible so that we close that window or at least limit that window as much as we possibly can so that defense cannot argue that there was some intervening event.

They can't say that, oh yeah, you had your auto accident in August, but it wasn't diagnosed until December. How am I supposed to know that in November you weren't, you know, putting up Christmas lights and and fell off the roof, >> right? Yeah. I mean, and again, that's your world, which makes a ton of sense because again, you don't know what you don't know. And that goes back to my point is I guess goes back to my dot your eyes and cross your tees. If you're in an accident, a traumatic accident, and I know sometimes people are, you know, and it doesn't have to be a car accident.

It could be a fall like, you know, we're just I just brought up car accident because we're >> sitting here. I'm glad you're doing the auto accident attorney Group, but it could be a fall. Well, hell, it could be. You know, again, I'll give you an example. A friend of mine will remain nameless. He uh was playing pickle ball in April. >> Is that why he's nameless? You don't want to embarrass him for >> Yeah. Right. Exactly. Right. You know, and he's playing pickle ball and and then he after the fact, you know, five, six weeks goes around or we're actually at at 38 at the beach and he's limping.

I'm like, "What are you limping for, dude?" He's like, "Oh, man. Playing pickle ball in April. I don't know. I feel like my ankle's messed up." Well, I've encouraged him. I'm like, "Did you go see somebody?" "No, I'm going to tough it out." Sure. Turns out he has a partial Achilles tear. >> Oh. >> So, anybody that's listening, like everybody knows Achilles tears can be pretty nasty. Yeah. >> And we've seen athletes galore pop their Achilles and you see it. But you think about it in April, we're now in almost September.

What's that? How many months is that now? Five months almost. Okay. Half of the time of his recovery could have been done. M >> now granted it's in the summer and he had trips planned out, but my point is is now the MRI, now he's gotten the MRI and now he's going and now there's scar tissue that's built up and things of that nature. So now it makes it a little bit different procedure, >> right? >> And I say that to say to your point is between the time from April and now August, you know, he's walking on the beach, he could have done more damage, >> right?

Or something to that extent. And you don't know what you don't know. People tear their ACL's, their knee doesn't swell up or their swells up for a day and they're like, "Oh, I'm fine." And then they'll go to a wedding, jump up and down, dance, dance, dance. Well, they don't have a the stability aspect of it, and what do they do? They rip their cartilage. >> Yeah. >> Or they tear their meniscus. Now, all of a sudden, what I would say is a straightforward ACL. And your listeners may be like, "Oh my god, what's straightforward about it?" But in fact, in in fact, it is.

But now you've added two or three other fairly catastrophic injuries that could affect your long-term ability. >> You're weakening the the base structure. >> That's right. The foundation of your house. >> Yeah. >> Right. So, so again there's we could go analogous and metaphors till we die, but ultimately what I'm saying is is and I've seen this in surgery and I mean I I I surgeons we laugh all the time because people ask me they're like, "What do you mean? Are you telling the surgeons to do surgery?" I'm like, "No, absolutely not.

The doctors are fantastic. They are trained for this. They are very good. But we I'm in surgery every single day >> because my product is being used every single day. >> Surgeons, doctors are in in surgery a couple times a week based on their O time. Right? >> So we see a lot of different ways and a lot of different techniques and to that point see a lot of different injuries and how they were injured. Is it a car accident? Is it a fall? Is it playing basketball? Is it playing pickle ball? And you'd be interested to see is is certain injuries you can know right off the bat what happened.

Like I would see a fractured shoulder like a a a proxim what's called a proximal humorous fracture where the upper part of your armbbone cracks and you'll look at it and and you look at an X-ray and I'll be like somebody fall off a ladder. They'll be like yep >> because they >> Yeah. Because they they they tried to brace or you know or they're or they land on their shoulder. I see. >> You know what I'm saying? So again, the mechanism of injury is a big part of the story of the pathology, >> right? >> Right.

So how you got injured, what happened, did your knee hit a dashboard? You know, I mean, again to to tie it again in a car accidents, knees hitting dashboards, that's almost an automatic PCL injury. It's actually called that in like orthopedic terms, like a dashboard injury. It's called dashboard injury. It's like you could have a dashboard injury and they'd be like, "Oh, did they tear their PCL, their posterior cruciate ligament?" Not as common as your ACL, but what happens is your knee hits the dashboard and because of the force, your shin bone goes backwards.

Well, that's what that structure is meant to stop happening from your shin bone from going backwards. But that force is you get rear ended, right? Your force is going forward. The dashboard is a static object. It's not moving. >> Right. >> Right. So, a little bit of physics here is a force is hitting an immovable object >> like trying to tackle you >> like trying to hit me. Right. Exactly. Right. Exactly. Right. It's like, you know, just So, anyway, if you're injured, if you feel like you're injured, if you have some sort of traumatic incident, just do yourself a favor.

Go get a checkup. >> Go dogs. >> Come on. Yeah, that's such great advice. And I hope that it's something that's played on repeat and people take it. I right now I feel like my mother cuz for the last several weeks I've been talking about like protecting yourself, taking care of yourself, making sure you're proactive about your uh what you're doing in terms of not necessarily health. Today's the first day we're talking about health, but products that you can get to protect yourself. >> So, uh now as I'm going through this conversation with you, it does make so much sense because there have been times where I myself have tweaked the shoulder and I'm like, "Oh, I'll wait." And I'm not considering how much I'm putting it that body part or that joint at risk because I've weakened something very minor, but I'm going to continue to use it and it could destroy something much worse and make it >> 100%.

>> And look, I look at things like that as sometimes in worst case scenario because that's just the way in the orthopedics like you always >> you're always looking to get to things quickly, especially in your bones and joints. The sooner you get to the bone, if it's fractured, >> Mhm. >> the easier it is to put back together. >> Right. >> Right. If you wait, well, what's going to happen? The body is going to start to heal itself. But if it's broken and it's not put back together in the correct alignment and the body starts to heal it, >> it's going to heal inappropriately, >> right?

>> Which in certain cases, ankle fractures for example, when you break your ankle and you don't know it starts to heal. Well, what the surgeon actually has to do if it heals is break it again >> and put it back together. Yeah. Because otherwise the body's kinematics are going to be off. Your angles are going to be off. Like our again, our bodies are meant to be what's called anatomic, how God made us. >> Yeah. >> So if anybody's listen, if you're doubting, if you're you tweaked something and you're like, man, don't wait.

Find somebody. Talk to a friend. If you're in a case or whatever, talk, you know, get yourself checked out. You will be glad you did. >> If you don't know where to start, feel free to reach out to to our office. Drop a comment underneath this video. We've got a ton of resources. We'll forward you off to someone. It's not a It's not like a sales pitch. It's not I'm not part of any network where I'm going to make any money off of it. It's literally just use us as a resource. We have doctors that we have to deal with because we have clients that are injured.

So whether it's an ortho, whether it's a neuro, physical therapist, chiropractor, I mean, >> right? Spine, >> you name it, we'll have a contact for you. >> Okay. Let me ask you this. >> What So you're you deal on on the sales side, I'd like to pivot a little bit. >> Sure. >> You deal with the hardware. >> Mhm. >> Um I assume like you know I I see an iPhone in front of you. I'm an iPhone guy. I don't want to use Android. Uh I prefer iPhone. I think it's a better product. Right or wrong? >> Is there something similar in the hardware side for medical devices on uh for for these surgical procedures?

And if so, how can a patient choose what sort of hardware they want or can they? >> Great question. Yes, they can. actually again uh a lot of the big player orthopedic companies um and again I'm not going to name names but they market to patients >> and you know there are websites search engine optimization where people can go and say oh I need uh an ACL and all of a sudden you may see a u I guess I can name names you can say an arthrex or a striker or some of that because they do have a database of what surgeons in the area in a certain radius or whatever do these certain procedures.

M >> and in the world of social media and access and you know I mean gosh YouTube uh whatever I mean you could go search on hey what does this procedure look like and if you're 18 years above and you said hey this has sensitive material and you say okay I'm good you can watch a whole surgery on YouTube that's incredible right and so people can see that and so then you search and say okay and then there's a you know and surgeons do it all the time on LinkedIn there's some really really fantastic what we call key opinion leaders um surgeons, doctors that are of very well entrenched in the scientific in the research community, but also reflect that research and how we continue to get better in their own practices.

>> So to to answer your question, absolutely. You know, and and again, it could be a relationship like you know, I have friends, well, you know, who do you know like who does a great job? Well, dude, what did you do? Like I always ask my friends, you know, they call me all the time. Hey man, I I did this or I did that. I'm like, okay, well, tell me more about it. Because 10 surgeons can do the same procedure, right? And they can do it very well, but two out of those 10 may have an additional specialization.

>> In that same body part, >> right? >> Right. And that may be more geared to what you're doing or I'm sorry, not what you're doing, but what you need to have done. >> Right. >> Right. And that's kind of the key to that. So patients can utilize today's uh resources and find that and companies, orthopedic companies, medical sales provider uh companies gear themselves towards marketing. Heck, you could see it on on TV sometimes. There's bunion uh uh uh commercials. >> Is there hardware for bunyions? >> Yeah, that's amazing.

>> Absolutely. And in fact, there's there's all sorts of cool techniques now that you know uh 10 years ago, you had to get this big huge gash in your toe. Well, especially females, females don't like having, you know, scars and their feet, you know, >> now you can get it through a couple poke holes. And so s so companies that do those kind of procedures or have innovated those procedures will market to that population >> directly to the consumer >> directly to the consumer or for that matter will partner with orthopedic practices and the orthopedic practice will commercialize if you will and and market that sort of procedure.

Hey, I'm so and you know I'm you know Roo's orthopedics >> as an example and I do this very unique procedure this cutting edge technology. >> Now all of a sudden you know Tim in my neighborhood you know comes and sees and then you know his son is playing baseball with you know your son or you know and whatever and and now you get this word of mouth oh yeah this doctor does this procedure. Oh yeah I heard about that. >> I saw that on Instagram. Yeah. Well, he doesn't. She does it. >> That's unreal. Is it like um when let's just call it I'd like to call it the Rooch device.

It's like a bionic knee, right? So Roo device has a website and I go I've suffered this injury. I end up on Roo devices website. Is it like car dealers where it's like find an authorized dealer >> and then it's a list of doctors that uses Roovices? >> Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. And they have it. So they say find a physician. >> That's amazing. >> Right. So again, it's all to your point directed on how I mean surgeons want orthopedic practice wanted to market themselves, right? They want to have the ability to take care of patients, especially in a market like Atlanta where you could throw a stone across, you know, 85 and hit four medical practices, >> right?

>> Right. So naturally, they want to be able to take care of their patients. It sounds like a a business, but it's not. It's just, hey, how am I going to be on the cutting edge, and I want to be able to have the best patient care possible? And look, there's a ton of great practices. Um, you know, I know a lot of these places personally and I would refer, I say everything. I'd refer my mother, my sister, my myself, >> you know, just like any professional, just like any profession, right? We are in a world of marketing and social.

We are in a social media world right now. And so they're being they're taking advantage of their resources to market procedures or implants. You know, when you say device, it could be an implant, a very specific implant. I don't know if you've seen on Instagram, for example, but I've had four people text me about the uh Germany gel that they're calling it. And it's a gel that some German doctor has now started to put and it regrows cartilage. >> Really? >> According according to, you know, some Tik Tok or Instagram.

Well, I looked it up. I read about it. I don't know much about it yet, but it's not here in the States. You know, Europe doesn't have an FDA, >> right? >> Right. So, they can they do whatever they want, >> right? >> But we don't have it in the States because it's not FDA approved. >> I just want to take a moment to uh share with our listeners that I'm looking at Roo's face. We're talking about the FDA in Germany while he's wearing his goggles. America. Come on now. Come on now. Come on now. I love this country.

>> So, anyway, apologize. Go ahead. Uh but anyway, my point is is there's a there is something that's incredibly unique, right? Incredibly unique. How effective is it? We don't know yet. >> Yet to be seen, but it's been marketed, >> but it's so much that you've been hit up >> that four people have asked me, "What about this?" >> Yeah. >> Right. And I'm like, I don't And it's And I'm get I'm not a doctor, guys. I'm not a medical doctor. I didn't go to med school. Whatever. This is just off straight personal 17 years of orthopedic experience, >> right?

>> Educated, being taught by surgeons, being mentored by doctors, uh, listening to podcasts, watching videos, reading articles, going to conferences, you know, that's where my experience comes in. That's where my quote unquote expertise comes in. Um but yeah so you know to that effect is product companies will will market their top level product and get doctors to utilize that product and then patients read about it or their neighbor has it done and then word gets out right and that and it is word of mouth and you know this I mean it's like hey >> we we had a conversation today this morning before we even got on word of mouth hey go here >> that's right yeah >> you know and it's that I think is the unique part of this.

So yeah, I mean I I think there is a lot of marketing um and there are commodity items, right? There are things that are just like yeah, everybody has this screw as an example. Everybody has this anchor uh some kind of an anchor to fix this tech to fix this ligament, >> right? But there are some advances in in the device sales >> 100%. And the company's battle, right? The company's battle based on patent infringement. Oh, you copied me. trademark this, you know, companies buy smaller companies, you know.

>> Yeah. >> I mean, it it it is it is it is a a wide web, if you will. And there's more innovation than there ever has been because of the resources available to us as people, >> right? >> Technology, materials, AI, blah blah blah blah blah, right? >> Yeah. Oh, we definitely have a lot of resources. I hope that you guys use us as a resource uh if you have any questions. Uh, I want to ask you with 17 years of experience of of being in an >> OH >> and so much so that you're able to distinguish what the injury was caused by.

>> Mhm. >> Is there anything that you would not do? Is there an activity that you would not participate in knowing what you know? >> It's a good question, right? Like for me right now, like I don't I mean you and I grew up playing basketball together. We grew up physical, you know, blah blah blah. I can't do that anymore. Physically, I I could if I went out to Lifetime and played ball with some of the guys that we've all grown up with, >> but I wouldn't be able to walk for three days. >> Yeah. >> I wouldn't be able to stand in the O.

If I was as healthy as could be, no. I will tell you the pickle ball world is is got to be a favorite of of foot and ankle surgeons out there because I think people are popping their Achilles left and right playing pickle ball. So that's that's what you're seeing most of right now. >> Well, and you know, again, I'm not trying to offend anybody, you know, to take offense, but like pickle ball has become a sport for middleage and weekend warriors and people that aren't, you know, it's their way of being active and maybe they're not in the best shape and they've never played sports growing up.

And now all of a sudden, you go and start, stop, you know, a heavy force and you're pushing off, you know, out of nowhere. you're stagnant and then you push off to go reach for a ball. That's how that injury happens, right? >> And if you're not conditioned for that, you are more susceptible to said injury. So perhaps it's not a particular type of activity that you wouldn't do, but maybe the piece of information that you would provide is to keep your body in a state of well-being if you're going to participate.

>> If you're going to participate, right? Like look, I can't run anymore. my leg does not allow me to do it. But I'll walk on an incline, a heavy incline, and I'm fine, right? Or I can't I can't do squats anymore. I used to squat all the time. I can't do it anymore. My knee does not allow me to do it. >> And when I say I can't, I I guess technically I could, >> right? >> But it's not smart, >> right? >> And I'm, you know, 39, I'll be 40 in a blink of an eye. And look, we're not getting any younger. And the body is unique to where it's going to protect itself.

It doesn't want to be hurt. >> Yeah. That's the second time you've mentioned that. Uh one piece of I also didn't go to well I I was never studying to be a doctor to begin with, but I didn't go to medical school, but because of the type of trauma we see all the time that the stiff neck that's dismissed so often. Uh a lot of people don't realize that's that's the body's intelligence. It's it's stiffening up and it's holding you >> on purpose. on purpose. On purpose, you don't move it. >> Your bones are getting your joints get stiff because it your body is trying to keep you from moving to further hurt something.

>> Right? A lot of the misconception that I uh have to deal with with people that are on the our clients, >> they misinterpret that stiffness as some sort of muscle or tissue injury. and they don't realize that that muscle or tissue is purposefully like that holding that joint or holding that bone in place. >> Sure. >> So that's that the underlying issue is what needs to be treated. People like, "Oh, I'm going to get a massage and be like that. >> That's that's not that's not going to fix it. It'll help, but it's not going to fix it." >> It's going to help.

You know, it's it's I say it's like a band-aid on a bullet hole. >> Yeah. Right. If uh a band-aid on a bullet hole. Yeah. It may stop some bleeding for a little, but I mean, you still got a bullet hole there. like you got to address the foundation and I will tell you there are some really good doctors out there and really and they get to the foundational part of the problem. >> I think that is so key and you know the age old song I don't even know if kids these days know it but you know the the neckbones connected to the armbbone and it's all like a a chain like >> right >> one connects the other and that's what affects it.

So to your point, to the neck point, if you have tight trap muscles, your neck muscles are very, very tight, there's a reason for that. Especially if you're not in the gym doing upright rows and like, you know, dumbbell, you know, trap lifts and things like that, you know, shoulder shrugs. >> You may have some underlying stuff going on in your neck that is causing your muscles to tighten up, which in turn will give you tension headaches, >> as an example, potentially. Or you may feel some numbness in your shoulder.

Yeah. >> You know, you may get some tingling. I don't know. You know, I move my arm and it just kind of ah gets a little shock. >> It could be something underlying coming from your neck, >> right? >> Pinched nerve, >> right? >> Well, your nerves interervate your muscles. Well, if the nerve is pinched means that you're you're not getting the necessary signals from your brain to your nerve to your muscle. So, your muscle is going to do what? it's gonna stop functioning the way it's meant to function, >> right?

>> Uh again, the nerdiness in me. Uh but that's why that's what intrigued me to this any is there's a cause and effect. It's a causality. It's like something is causing this. >> Yeah. >> What is this something? And sometimes often you got to work backwards because you're like, "Oh, my shoulder hurts. Okay, what did you do? I don't know. I didn't do anything." You know? Oh, well, okay. Well, let's take an image. Let's do this. Have you had a neck injury? Well, yeah, actually, you know, I got into an accident >> uh five months ago, but I didn't really think anything of it.

I thought it was like whiplash, you know, whatever. It'll go away. Now, five months later, you have this uh you have this other issue um that very well could be related, >> right? >> And I don't know how that works and I Yeah, it goes undiagnosed. And now I don't know how that works in your world, but there you go. Now you got to backtrack and be like, "Well, did this cause this or did you do something different?" >> Well, not unlike uh delaying the diagnosis uh or or delaying the procedure for an for an ortho, right?

They they got to come now and like clean up the scar tissue before they even get started. on the legal side and in that example that you just set forward, obviously the the defense's whole objective is to say that we didn't cause these injuries. >> So, we have to now we can't just present this injury. We have to defend against their argument that the injury wasn't caused by that >> accident, by that collision, by that that moment, that impact. And so then we have to rely on medical experts, >> right?

>> And maybe even like recreate an accident reconstructionist depending on the severity of the injury, right? The the practical matter of all of this is we can prove a lot of things and and zealously advocate for our clients, >> but all of that costs money. So at a certain point in time, it's like if it's not a catastrophic injury, just in real world terms, it doesn't make sense for us to employ all sorts of experts to come to prove that the injury was caused by this collision. You know what I mean, >> right?

The delay would if you had to delay then for example and this is just my now I'm asking you now but if I had to delay and then you have to got kind of go back and prove now you've got this cascade of now injuries potentially caused by the initial injury that goes undiagnosed >> right >> it's going to cost me more >> yep >> because now you got to go backtrack or get more people involved more experts ask more expert hey could this have this and this and this and this rather than if you foundationally got the correct diagnosis from the very beginning.

Well, now that's documented. We know that. And if sort of subsequent domino effect happens, well, we've already established that this was a mechanism of injury. This was a time of injury and as a result now we are get these things are happening. This domino effect has happened. That's much more efficient, right, in your world. Okay. >> Absolutely. >> That's what I would think. But again, that's not my expertise. So, >> no, it's not rocket science. You nailed it, >> right? >> That's exactly right. >> Again, goes cause and effect, right?

And that's why I think goes back to what we were saying, the foundation of our business. If guys, if you think you're not if you think something's wrong, do yourself a favor and hopefully nothing's wrong, >> right? >> Hopefully nothing's wrong. Hopefully, it's a clean bill of health and you're okay and God, you know, more power to you. God bless. Go dogs. >> Go dogs. In my world, diagnostic imaging is it's a godsend because it's it is an objective image. You know, it's not the patient saying, "Hey, I I'm in pain." It's not a doctor who the the doctors are great people, but the defense bar has made them turn out to be they they paint them out to be motivated by billing.

In other words, that that the doctor is going to say that this patient is in pain simply because they're going to get paid. Now, you know, how about the doctors that get paid by the defense, >> right? I was going to say, what about they don't have what they don't have experts on their side, right? >> Right. Like, come on. >> Besides the patient, the doctor that when we have a diagnostic image, that thing speaks for itself. >> And dude, I think you you nailed it right on. And I think you nailed it especially with the how rapidly imaging can be done.

>> Mhm. >> Right now there are certain places and look there's some images are better than other MRI machines quality X-ray text a lot of variables things like that. >> Right. >> Right. Not all X-ray texts are created equal. Not all X-rays are created equal. Not all MRI uh uh machines are created equal. You know >> we got to get an episode on that. >> Yeah. Right. Again technology. >> Yeah. >> Right. It's just like you iPhones. It's TVs, it's your car, it's this microphone and this headset that I've never heard my voice so clear in my life, you know, like this is a good product, right?

So, just like anything else, it's interesting that you say the business side of things and that's super unfortunate, >> right? That is super unfortunate because and look, I'm not saying that everybody on the health care side is perfect and whatever, but like at the end of the day, the person that suffers in the middle of this back and forth is the patient. >> Every single time. every single time they're trying to get back or they're trying to get taken care of or whatever it is, you know, whatever the the the magnitude of the injury is, whether it's catastrophic or not or whatever, at the end of the day, and even regardless of accidents or or personal injury or in private insurance is like this >> where you got to jump through 19 hoops and whatever it is and whatever and at the end of the day, this person is suffering.

And I think about that and you know, we're very family oriented like what if that was my mother? You're absolutely right. By the way, I I sometimes forget because I'm only dealing with auto insurance carriers, but it is the same exact issue with health insurance. >> It's the same. And that's a probably a conversation for another time, but yeah, it's a huge problem where, you know, you have this this holy grail of paperwork for for health insurance and oh, this they cover this MRI, but they don't cover this X-ray or you can go to this doctor, but you can't go to this doctor.

Yeah. >> And it's like what what happened? Like this person needs to be taken care of. Can't we just do that? >> Holly and I had an episode about how uh the underwriters at these insurance companies must be specialists in every field because they're making the judgment calls over the treating physician that has put hands on this patient. >> It's unreal. Truth be told, that's why I didn't really go to med school. I I will I will not lie to you. Like truth be told, I I didn't do it because I was so frustrated being in clinic because of the direction that this person's care was in the hands of somebody that I don't even know who they are sitting behind a computer screen checking a checklist.

And it took me an hour. I'll never forget I was in clinic and the doctor and I was doing this peer review and I was trying to get this approval and it took me an hour and finally I lost it on the person on the other side of the line. I go, "Will you stop being a robot >> and check your checklist and understand this person's knee has been exploded and they can't wait six weeks to go to physical therapy because your insurance says that you got to go to physical therapy. This person needs to have surgery.

their ACL is gone and they're ready to go. Why is this such a difficult task? Because this is what the policy calls for. >> The real answer is because at the end of the quarter, we have to give shareholder returns, >> right? >> That's what it is. >> Etna or whoever, you know, not to go that route. >> This guy on Instagram, uh, Will Flannry, he's Doc Glock. I don't know if you guys follow him. Have you seen this guy? >> No, I haven't. He makes amazing content. Um he he does little skits where the cardiologist he he plays different characters but then they have to call like United Healthcare for example and then United Healthcare gives them the reason why they can't each one can't order whichever test or surgery that needs to be done.

Doc Lock, if you ever see this, please come on the podcast. >> Yeah, that would be cool. I would love I mean that would be fun. >> That'd be a really good >> That would be fun. That that'd be cool. >> You should tag him. >> I will. You know what? That's a great idea. Yeah, you should tag him >> if you listeners. Mom, I know you're listening. I love you. Thank you so much. And you saw Roo today. >> Yeah. >> Um >> Okay. >> If you if you listeners also tag him. Let's Let's get this guy on the podcast. >> Yeah, >> Roo.

Uh I could talk to you for hours. I want to get you back on. Let's let's talk some ball. But let's wrap up today. Usually at this point what I do is I turn over to the guest um if there is something that you think that uh something I should have asked that I didn't ask or something that you think the listeners could really get some value out of. Right. >> If you would share like a a thought with them. >> I think again man no I think I think we nailed it for what what we were able to talk about. You and I could talk forever and I could go on about this world for longer than we could probably sit here in this office.

I think the number one thing that I would reiterate to people is and in your world, right, you guys do a great job. My family comes to you. We've been family friends. When my mom got into a car accident, when my sister got into a car accident, obviously you were the first person I called. >> Even when my mom fell, you know, it wasn't even a car accident. It was just an injury. Yeah. >> Um and I called you immediately. Even as just a resource. >> Yeah. >> Right. Again, to your point, might not be your world, but you were able to direct us to somebody, which I think is is is incredibly valuable.

Right. people work with people they trust, >> right? >> Um I would say to any of your listeners, anything like that right now, I think the number one thing I would say is if you feel like you have been in a traumatic injury, don't wait to utilize the resources that are available to you in whatever capacity that may be. Not telling you to do one thing or the other, but if you have a traumatic injury, just cross your cross your tees, dot your eyes, utilize the resources. If it's a car accident, call the auto accidents attorney.

If it's any, you know, whatever, whatever it may be, it's just the longer you wait, the more difficult and challenging it's going to be. >> That's great advice, Rou. I love you, man. Go dogs. >> Go dogs, buddy. Love you, man. >> You guys, I hope you got a lot out of this episode. As always, please like, comment, and share. It's going to help me out. Mom, thank you for always listening. I love you. Take care.